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My top-5 wish list for 2019 (originally for 2018)

Galen

December 24, 2017 23:41

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We're nearing the end of the year. Sansar has improved quite a bit in the six months since I joined. We've asked for a lot of things along the way, but I wanted to encourage you all to give the top 5 improvements you would like to see come to Sansar in 2018.

For each of the 5 things, I want to ask you to frame it with the following:

1. What is the improvement?
2. Give a specific example of it in practice.
3. How would this be good for you?
4. How would this serve Linden Lab's interests?

Try to keep each item short; maybe only a single paragraph. Also, I want to encourage people not to argue against other people's items here; more to just list and let list. I'd love to see what people come up with. And I'm betting LL will pay attention, too.

33 comments

• 5
  
  Galen December 25, 2017 00:11

  (In no particular order)

  1. Scripted kinematic rigid body motion

  (one forum discussion here)

  Using essentially the same techniques for setting dynamic objects in motion, but having those objects not respond to physics in their environment. This is exactly how animated mesh already behaves now; I just want to be able to script the motion instead of uploading fixed animations. An example would be a scripted elevator; there's no reason to have it bounce around or crash a scene because it hits things. This would simplify my coding and increase the features I could offer my customers. This would help LL by dramatically reducing the burden on a scene's physics and scripting engines.

   

  2. REST-style communication between scenes and outside

  (one forum discussion here)

  Scripts would be able to talk to databases and other services beyond Sansar's walled garden. And those services would be able to reach into participating scene scripts just the same. A game could keep track of state across scenes and sessions for each player. I could offer richer, persistence-driven experiences through scripts for creators. This would help LL by increasing the capabilities of a single scene or user with outside computing resources donated at no cost to or commitment by LL.

   

  3. Custom HUD-style 2D scripted UI panels

  (one somewhat related forum discussion here)

  Scene creators would be able to offer visitors one or more customized UIs that are visible only to each visitor as 2D panels like the standard ones for chat, inventory, etc. A game could show the user's "life" level and game objects they've accumulated thus far, for example. This would enable much richer user experiences than the clunky requirement that everything be "out there" in the 3D shared world. This would help LL by empowering creators to offer richer experiences.

   

  4. Scripted payments

  (one forum discussion here)

  Scripts would be able to accept payments from visitors and would be able to pay residents (visiting or not). For example, a visitor could pay for a time-limited admission to a scene or a part of one. Or a visitor could be paid an advertising bonus for visiting all the stations in a mall or trade show. This would enable me to create scripts for tip jars, ticketing systems, rent auto-payments, and more to my customers. This would help LL by increasing the opportunities for resident transactions, which all would generate revenue for LL.

   

  5. Supply chain economy

  (one forum discussion here)

  I know this one is already coming, but I wanted to emphasize my feeling that this will be one of the most important innovations for Sansar's future. I'm convinced that SL exists today precisely because LL did a better job at inventory/permissions/money than anybody else had prior. If done the way we've all discussed so far, this will be a huge leap even over that.

  Edited by Galen December 25, 2017 00:19
• 5
  
  Urukan December 25, 2017 05:28

  I want three or maybe four things :

   

  - A more customizable shape and face for the avatar. Because now we can only make some litlle changes that change really nothing :-)

  It's MEGA IMPORTANT to attract people !

    

  -Dynamic water that we can place EVERYWHERE

  With an effect of submerged camera when we swim into it.

  (Cloudparty had that)

   

  -Describe more precisely the utility of the functions in the API ?

  It would be easier for people like me who are not professional developpers but know how to program.

  (sorry if there are some misspellings, English is not my native language)

  Edited by Urukan December 26, 2017 03:25
• 5
  
  Gindipple December 25, 2017 05:29

  Numerous existing bugs addressed.

  100 people on a region without lag or instancing.

  Persistence.

  Store update capability.

  Adult content allowed.

  Selling of grouped items.

  Animations.

  Web Services.

  Cloth physics (in world)

  UI rewrite, with programmable HUD capability.

  Control settings for preferences, similar to Firestorm, persistent ones)

  Physics engine overhaul.

  Public JIRA reporting system for bug tracking.

  Unit Testing employed on all API code to nearly eliminate breaks in released code.

  Full camera control by experience owner via scripts.

  Dev version of code for testing new deployments before going live on experiences.

  Hierarchical Inventory system similar to SL, folders mainly.

  A nice water system, similar or better than SL.

  Metrics for many things.

  Some sort of LOD system

  Particle System, similar or better than SL.

  Scriptable attachments.

  Mouse click action, coupled with Raycast vector returned.

  Opps I went over 5

   

• 3
  
  GranddadGotMojo December 26, 2017 18:38

  Tough to limit it to just five elements I would like to see.  But, here is my list.

  • Plug-In Infrastructure allowing developers to add entire new features and to modify built-in functionality without modifying the engine code directly. Experience Level Plug-Ins that would only work in an Experience and Engine Level Plugins that would work across all Experiences (i.e. like an extension to chat of cut and paste).   It would be great to empower developers instead of assuming all development will just be doing light scripting to move some objects around in an Experience.  A robust plug-in infrastructure would allow Linden Labs to protect the core programming and game experience, but, allow independent developers to significantly contribute to the overall impact of Sansar in the Virtual World Community.  A well thought out Plug-In Approach would also free up the Sansar Team from providing piecemeal based access into the API via our requests for single feature at a time and allow for more organic independent development. 
  • Persistent Data and Access to Data Storage tied to the Experience, Objects and the Actors. This allows for the actual creation of many common game elements including remembering state between sessions.  This would include World, Scene, Actor, Object and Script related persistent storage.  Linden Labs would benefit because then Creators could create richer, more desirable Experiences for People to interact with.
  • UI Designer for HUDS, Menus and Interface Related Graphics. Create the ability to program more complex interaction with game elements via Menus and HUDS.  Everything can’t be accomplished in a Virtual World by picking up an object as the only way to interact with elements in a game play.  Again, the benefit is the ability to create a richer environment than just a place where people can go dress up and chat with each other.
  • Skeletal Mesh Animation System that is Scriptable (i.e. can interact with other game objects). Support at least one of the standard animation formats.  Be able to import the animations into Inventory and play the animations via a script that could include a chat interface, a HUD or interaction with Scene Objects.  This mesh animation system should also be able to combine with VR controller overrides or extensions.  This would create the ability to get a more immersive environment in addition to opening up the ability to create all types of more realistic games that require physical movement.
  • Media extensions including Streaming Video Synched into an Experience, the ability to Combine Computer Generated footage with Real World Footage and much deeper integration via the API to the underlying FMOD sound engine to enhance and program Audio. This is very important to me personally because I want to develop a highly interactive music environment.  I believe this could benefit Linden Lab because it would help attract people interested in playing, listening and creating music.
  • I know it is only five items, but, a feature I would like to see that is not directly related to the Sansar Platform and is for the Store. I would like to be able to sell things that have more than one element.  For example, a scripted object, a script with attached Sound Resources, an object with Lights pre-attached, etc.  You should be able to create the complex object in a Sansar Scene and then sell that configured item on the store.
• 3
  
  Galen December 27, 2017 00:12

  I should have added scripted skeletal animations of mesh. By which I mean ability to start/stop animations on objects & NPCs (eventually avatars, too). But also the ability for script to control individual bones in an mesh object, too. I want to create responsive NPCs that are not limited to looping animations.

• 3
  
  Debi Baskerville December 27, 2017 18:17

  My list in order of importance:

  1. Permission system:

  It's my understanding that with this it's basically all or nothing. I hope I'm misunderstanding and that we can at least get permission settings for how the next user may or may not use our products.

  2. Ability to update products in the store.

  3. Avatar customization: 

  a. capability to use custom skins

  b. ability through the use of sliders to change body type, including height,      weight, muscle mass.

  c. further adjustments to facial features. As they are currently, it's nearly impossible for us not to all look like clones.

   4. Avatar animations:

  a. sit

  b. dance

  5. Add water to the terrain feature.

  As a creator the first two features are the most important to me; however, as a consumer and Sansar enthusiast I believe avatar customization would be at the top of the list for creating retention of those first time users. For those who love the "Barbie" aspect of VR, having avatar animations and water would be a plus for those.

   

   

  Edited by Debi Baskerville December 27, 2017 18:23
• 2
  
  VR Architect December 25, 2017 03:38

  Some sort of understanding where LL is going with the marketplace from a creators point of view with some level of guarantee. This would help me to decide how much of my free time I spend making objects. I am not looking to get rich, but enough to pay for my hobby. For example, experiences costs, software licenses, etc. I stopped until I get a feel of this. 

  Edited by VR Architect January 02, 2018 23:19
• 2
  
  Galen December 27, 2017 01:51

  So I'm kinda hoping people will avoid arguing over people's points. The arguments will drown out people posting their wishes.

• 2
  
  Cal December 27, 2017 20:14

  1. More character customisation options

  Feels too limited right now, we need more options for bone structure face and body sliders, more eye colours. This will bring more people into Sansar because people hate a limited game that's pretty much about avatars and socialising, without the options it just will not keep people interested.

  2. Import mesh avatars, heads, bodies, skins, eyes, tattoos, companions

  It's what kept me going back to Second Life. The amount of things we could do with and attach to our avatars. Having more unique looking avatars thanks to skin appliers, tattoos, hairbases, eyes and more. Being able to use other creators huds to apply these easily. This would make Sansar more appealing to a lot more people.

  3. Animations

  We need more animations to fully enjoy experiences. Having our avatar be able to sit and do activities such as bowling, darts, swimming, golf, basketball and more. Also touch would be amazing eg. having our avatars shake each others hands, hug and more intimate animations. This is what VR is all about, it just feels very limited in Sansar.

  4. See how many are online, in experiences

  I enter so many experiences wondering if anyone will be around, but I can never find anyone. We need something that tells us how many people are in our chosen experiences. This way we can go to the places with more traffic to socialise and discuss topics.

  5. In world Hud

  This will help with seeing how large an experience is and knowing exactly where people are in the experience. It will add character to the game and be a great improvement

• 2
  
  Cat January 01, 2018 18:02

  1. Water

  2. Inventory search

  3. Thumbnail for inventory items from Marketplace

  4. Lookbook marking for a quick overview what is already listed in Marketplace

  5. Chatfunction in Lookbook

   

   

• 2
  
  Simon James Cull August 14, 2018 06:08

  Shader code
  Being able to write our own shaders so we don't have to wait years for basic things like water shaders. Devs you really need to start listening, people have now been asking for water since sansar was released and it's quite clear by the diminished forum activaty that sansar is now failing before it even starts.

  Edited by Simon James Cull August 14, 2018 06:09
• 2
  
  Gindipple January 02, 2019 00:15

  Galen can you change the title to 2019 now?

   

• 1
  
  Whystler December 26, 2017 03:57

  WATER

  A system tool for realistic water plane. It would function Like the terrain system object: you would create a plane and resize it based on your needs. It would have shaders on it that provided the appropriate shine and reflection necessary for water.

  I always love water in a scene. There is a lot that can be achieved with just a little water, but the water has to look good.

  It would be good for Linden Lab to keep up with the Jones' ... All of the Unity based virtual worlds have amazing water. At the moment, the water has to be muddy in a shaded area to look right, like the woodland pond in Sky's forest scene (which is awesome, because it can work there). Many beautiful scenes lose something from the lack of realistic water available (ie. Mikki's beautiful violin tree world).

  GROUPING OBJECTS

  Currently we can select many objects in an environment, but all we can do is delete them. It would be amazingly wonderful to be able to *copy* and transform (ie. move, rotate, mirror) groups of objects. It certainly would make my workflow in creating an experience easier because I love using modular systems. Activeworlds is a great model to follow for the perfect builder workflow, and they implemented this very early. Once again, good for Linden Labs to keep up with the Jones' with this, as it would attract users from other places that have it (vast majority of VR platforms), including Secondlife.

  SNAPPING OBJECTS

  I'm surprised this isn't here now, and ... well maybe it is, so correct me if I'm wrong. I would like to be able to snap the movement of objects in any given direction to a length I can set, and move with the cursor, left, right, up, down. Again, this is great for modular building, and certainly many experience-builders in other platforms are used to having this. The easier and more familiarly worlds can be built, I would expect the more worlds will be built.

  PEOPLE IN WORLD STAT

  Folks are calling this concurrency. I want it, because I want to go chat with people, and the best I can do at the moment is look for the recently updated world and hope someone's there lol. This would boost more random socializing and in-world gatherings. If you think no one's around, you don't go looking. If you see even one person there, you have hope. How to implement? Just a little number on the atlas page for each world would do it. You can also have an "unknown* setting for world owners who don't want this to show.

  TEXT TO VOICE

  Computer speaks based on the text you type. I would love this because I don't always have the opportunity to use voice ... various restrictions here from not being able to talk out loud because the partner is trying to watch TV ... aquariums in the room have a lot of ambient burblings. Certainly you would want this to be optional. At the moment, if you chat with type in the chat window, you kind of feel like the unpopular kid that no one pays attention to lol. I know this isn't what's actually happening. Most folks are extremely welcoming. But it feels that way, in the same way water feels dry and painted on.

   

  Edited by Whystler December 26, 2017 04:58
• 1
  
  Urukan December 27, 2017 00:45

  Oh yes ! I want the ability to rig meshes for animations and with a start/stop control that we can use anywhere on the timeline ! (script control) (and having control on individual bones)

   

  And I review my precedent review ! lol ! There are still some problems with metalness and the brightness and exposure of the scene :-)

  Edited by Urukan December 27, 2017 02:23
• 1
  
  Gindipple December 27, 2017 07:56

  I have no problems with people voicing.

  But if you can't I don't want a computer simulated version of it.

  I wish youtube would ban it as well.

  AI just isn't up to par for it yet.

  I think it'd be great if they added some interface for VR users to see text chat, but I know that's probably quite complex.

  Oh and not arguing, constructively debating. Surely that's a good thing for a beta product right?

   

• 1
  
  nebulae December 27, 2017 17:29

  I have some! I hope none of these are too outlandish. 

  1 - ability to lock a dynamic object into place via script. OR, ability to change the position/orientation of a non dynamic rigid body. Basically, I want to stick something scripted somewhere via script and not have it be movable by collisions or physics.

  2 - ability to use a scripted object in "createcluster", either by being able to drag an object with a script in it back into your inventory, or add a script to an object when its created/rezzed. 

  3 - particle systems. Changeable via script. 

  4 - A more integrated scripting experience. Being able to double click a script and have it open in vs, then auto upload on save and re-apply to all the current objects that use it in the scene you're working on. Debugging / testing of some sort without having to build the experience and re-visit. A project "structure" of scripts that abide by namespaces. Being able to create and access my own libraries. 

  5 - system.net.http. I understand that there are privacy / security implications of this but I have to think that there is a way to whitelist or approve connections, or let the visiting user know that this experience connects to resources outside of sansar. This isn't just for external persistence - which would be nice, even just as a high score tracker for a game - but the ability to offset long running computations to a server I own and pay for, and access the results of those later. 

   

• 1
  
  VR Architect January 02, 2018 23:12

  So I started creating more items and adding to the store over the holidays. Here are some inventory wish items:

  • Folders for inventory - I have about 285 items there and it is so hard to work with.
  • Show item name as list view in Inventory - The names of the items are too short sometimes. Would be nice to toggle between the views.
  • A filter to show my items not in store for inventory - I have many other items that could be listed in the store but not able to easily determine which ones I missed for upload. 
  • Image resize to square on thumbnail image - The first image of a listing is the one for the catalog. If it is not a square image, it shows weird in the store. So an extra pipeline step is required to make it square and remove the background.
  • Chrome material that works (preferred from Substance Painter)
  • Bounding box mesh on import - An auto-collision mesh creator checkbox to create a bounding box mesh. This would help the pipeline speed and help new folks from just copying a complex object mesh which may cause an impact to performance.
  • Turn collision mesh on/off for an object in world  - Buyer of my object could elect to turn off the collision mesh. This way I would not need to create two different objects and place two different ones in the store; one with collision, and one without.

  Edited by VR Architect January 02, 2018 23:14
• 1
  
  Galen July 17, 2018 17:19

  You can already detach your camera from your avatar. Try the F4 key. Then use your arrow (or WASD) keys and right mouse dragging.

  I do miss the "cam surfing" I'm familiar with in SL, though. I like that approach way better. That said, I've also gotten used to Sansar's camera navigation. It's good enough, even if it's not as good.

  I'm more frustrated by how the third-person camera "sticks" to facing one direction while your avatar changes directions for several seconds before it starts swiveling to follow you. Ug. If you are annoyed by that, two pieces of advice. Keep at least one arrow key down as you go; don't let up. The camera eventually mirrors your direction better. Two, use right-button mouse dragging to control your camera direction as you walk. It's tedious but effective.

• 1
  
  nebulae August 14, 2018 13:59

  @simon - +1 for custom shaders! Most conversations happen over in discord now. it's very active over there, you should join us : )

• 0
  
  Urukan December 26, 2017 03:21

  Oh sorry ! I review my opinion on metalness. I just reuploaded my assets and it seems to be better now (even with no reflection)

  Strange, that was not the case a few weeks ago ! Good job !

  I will edit my previous post !

  Edited by Urukan December 26, 2017 03:33
• 0
  
  Gindipple December 26, 2017 08:16

  Absolutely don't want text to voice.

  Or voice morphing shenanigans.

  Be who you are or don't be.

  Stephen Hawking excluded of course.

   

• 0
  
  Richardus Raymaker December 26, 2017 12:37

  Still working on my list:

  But, yes sansar need 'text to voice' Only not in way most think.
  Sansar need to be made so that Text to voice programs can be used with sansar. I think that is the real problem right now. People that need text to voice have already software for it. Only expect it does not work with sansar.

  Unless you mean, that text typed get spoken by the avatar. Uhmm.
  With a good text to voice it's really god, there are some companies / sites that make very good ones. I keep neutral on that.

  Voice morpher. Yes and no. For now i say no !. Because i never seen a good voice morpher. The can be more creepy then no voice morpher. At the same time. sometimes RL: voice not fit with the character.  But simple , sansar not need to implement a voice morpher, there enough external programs that can do the same ! And the all suck ! Yes for fun i tried a few in my life.

   

• 0
  
  Whystler December 27, 2017 00:34

  Gindipple ... why wouldn't you want people who don't have the ability or occasion to do voice, be heard?  It is frustrating when you are stuck with chat, to not be heard.
  
  
  

• 0
  
  Galen December 27, 2017 13:42

  Normally I like the debates in single-serving threads. But a debate on one single request (like text-to-speech) can easily sidetrack this thread and demolish the point of it: soliciting a variety of opinions. So far we're getting that variety. Consider it a gentle request in this special case.

  By the way, yours is a reasonable and well-presented argument. I disagree with it, but won't argue my view here for the above reason.

  Edited by Galen December 27, 2017 13:44
• 0
  
  Galen December 27, 2017 14:00

  FYI, I've started another thread specifically to debate the merits of a hypothetical text-to-speech feature:

  https://help.sansar.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115011865626-Should-Sansar-offer-built-in-text-to-speech-TTS-

• 0
  
  Galen January 01, 2018 18:51

  Cat: Can you please explain what #4 means? Do you mean that things you upload and preview in LookBook should show you whether they are already listed in the store?

• 0
  
  Cat January 01, 2018 19:05

  Yes Galen,, maybe with a little logo or other color / frame

  Edited by Cat January 01, 2018 20:43
• 0
  
  Richardus Raymaker January 04, 2018 20:37

  There to many things for top-5. Also one thing need other thing. I dont get a good list together.So i put my list on.

  • Bigger UI font, so things get readable.

  • Wish we could undock the inventory, properties and scene window. so it's just a separate window like you have in windows and move that to a second screen. And remember that setting. SO i have the world on my first screen and the tools on the other screen. But in a way that the undocked windows not drag the framerate down to 60hz on my main 144hz screen. I zsee that already happen when the window is not maximized and sticks a bit into the second screen.

  • A good maximized sanarclient window. One that not requires to press maximize every time.

  • Inventory folders and detail view, not the icon mode.

  • Better edit window opacity, that have less opacity.

  • Paypal support , without paypal a big group of users cannot buy S$ or get subscriptions etc.

  • Option to always go default into first person mode. It still reverse back to third person.

  • It's not for me, But a apple client is still very usefull. I know enough people that cannot use sansar because lack of apple client. At the same time sansar need first get more complete.

  • Clickable chat bookmarks for VR. so we not need to go in and out of VR.

  • Touch event for VR and desktop, so it's possible to make things like buttons and light switches. That opens lot's of new possibilities. Liike doors, Games etc.

  • A good Pivot object movment in edit mode, one we can see if it's inside object.

  • Dump the ugly blue VR hands, and give us normal avatar hands

  • Adjust the VR hand so it's correct aligned with my RL hands and vive controller.

  • Make VR more realtime with hands and throwing things. the lag and delay is compared to some other new platform extreme high and lagged / delayed.

  • Terrain we can paint with own custom textures.

  • More realtime testing in edit mode. So we don't need to bake and publish the experience after every little change. Scripts is one thing that need to run like it's published. We need avatar in edit mode, so we can do the same as published. etc.
  • Option to have dynamic objects without interaction from users. so you can move things that still have a collision shape but avatars cannot screw the movement or action the do.
  • More responsive vive controller support. Right now walking and steering is not really good implemented. There's always some stutter when you try to start walking or running. It's still not really exciting todo much in VR with sansar. Games are impossible or hard to play in VR. because not client side implementation of catch and move the VR hands. It feels like every movement need to be send first to the server before it get send back to the client. Err: wrong.

   

  Edited by Richardus Raymaker January 05, 2018 12:10
• 0
  
  Simeon July 17, 2018 16:16

  1. A camera function comparable to the one in SL which allows us to 'freecam' in the same manner. I have no idea if this is doable, or on the cards already, but it's my one major whinge about Sansar so far. 
  2. If I'm walking around (awkwardly, as I do), I want to be able to see stuff from different angles, as I do in SL.
  3. It'd be good for me as I'd then feel much less frustrated with walking around, trying to turn around, and instead wandering in random directions all the time. I'd be able to plan my route without feeling like I'm wandering aimlessly.
  4. This would serve LL's interests by making the whole experience less angrifying and much easier for people familiar with SL to adapt to this new, different environment.
  5. That's really my only major gripe. Everything else will happen in time...but the lack of that 'ctrl alt and mouse' cam function makes me feel like I'm walking around with one foot tied to the other. 

  Edited by Simeon July 17, 2018 16:17
• 0
  
  Richardus Raymaker July 17, 2018 16:38

  "A camera function comparable to the one in SL which allows us to 'freecam' in the same manner. I have no idea if this is doable, or on the cards already, but it's my one major whinge about Sansar so far"

  Means we also need oprtion to disable it for experiences.
  It's usefull in Secondlife. But it's also very annoying function that can be used in wrong way. Never where missing that function in sansar.

  If it's restricted to 2 meters away from your avatar it's more easy to accept and sound smore usefull. Distance of camming need to stay below 5 meters i think.