User(Only.PayPal);
Title = Money.Flow(:));
That means if accounts could have a stipend, a small amount in S$.
Would be good for money flow right?
And a way of letting the early Europe no credit-card creators to be able to buy.
Date
Votes
32 comments
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Galen Right now, LL is focused on building up the technology platform and getting creators working with it. I don't think they really want to encourage a lot of casual visitors to come here yet. And a stipend would encourage abuses like creating tons of accounts to get more money.
I do hope they actually just improve payment options. That should help improve the flow of money more than giving out stipends would. Arguably, they are losing money and hearts because of this small glitch for now.
Question, though. Why not just get a credit card you can use with Sansar? I made the painful choice to invest in a new computer so I could run Sansar. And to buy a head mounted display I won't get much use out of (I'm not a gamer), just so I can properly exercise Sansar's features and test my creations properly. This all cost me $4,000. Is it really that hard to get a credit card? Isn't it basically free?
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Lex yup, but for special accounts like us! ;)
As off to day everybody small amount dollars and every new account is excluded. I spend 2400 euro for Vive and getting my computer ready. all new. its working fine so I'm glad i saved some dollars there, ghehe.My point is some people really don't have money but do have a gift. Not implying myself of course! gift and money wise... But not all of us are gifted with wealth. Basically free is not free.Free is an bool, not float, so IsCloseToEqual dos not work here. ;)Its Free or not to be free.If you say basically free and that means you pay money for it.The 20 euro i save a year. i would rather invest that in here.How could i ever buy your 1000 S$ script otherwise.If no money flow is wanted then should all sale items for free.Especially the cool ones!! ;) For me the credit-card is a no go.
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Gindipple If they give away free money I'm raising my prices!
See also Inflation.
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Lex I think you overreact if you say inflation, im not talking 10000 dollars.
Im talking people longer here reward with some kind of small stipend so they can buy or appreciate items.
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Gindipple How about a modified idea.
Bug Bounties!
a stipend is a form of payment for a service.
So let's put some service behind your idea.
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Lex That's indeed the whole idea of a stipend, not a salary.
You mean hunting bugs for S$? Define "So let's put some service behind your idea." pls.
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Galen @Lex: Can I ask why getting a credit card is a "no go" for you? We in the US can go to many local stores and buy a pre-paid Visa or Mastercard debit card and use it for credit card purchases. And, of course, we can get a mountain of credit cards that cost nothing (if we pay the balance each month) just by holding out our hands. What's the problem in the EU or wherever you are?
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Reid Parkin OK, before they start handing out money they should be spending every cent on getting Sansar to work on a more average computer. I was fortunate because I happened to build a new computer 12 months ago, and I chose to spend a bit more on a good graphics card. But this is what will keep people away and money from flowing in. Not many people will buy new computers. (I have a big question mark over headsets too.) But it is getting better. My fans don't work so hard anymore.
Yeah, stipend is probably miles down the list in very very small print, and maybe with a question mark, or crossed out.
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Galen I take for granted that Sansar is intended to stay small for at least a year. In that time, the platform will improve a lot. And also, high-performance computers will become cheaper and more common. I guess I don't see a point to them trying to make Sansar run better on computers that will be obsolete soon. Especially since they are bound to continue to add features that will consume even more resources in the future.
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Reid Parkin Well, then it will take time for people to catch up. I build a new high performance computer every 6 years. And I make my living on it. How often would you say people upgrade? It will just take time, as you say....years and years as people slowly upgrade.
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Reid Parkin So, I guess you're saying that Sansar will be in beta for a very long time, until people catch up with technology, or it will be meant only for the few who have high performance computers, and those who do what you did - make 'the painful choice to invest in a new computer so I could run Sansar'.
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Reid Parkin then it confirms I have made the right decision, as i'm guessing many others have or will do. Go away and come back in a few years time.
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Galen Let's take SL as a standard. My sense, from talking to fellow residents since 2005, is that people are all over the board here. Some upgrade practically annually. Others may not upgrade for 10 - 15 years. My speculative guess is that at least half of SL residents typically upgrade within 5 year cycles.
I think we can assume that some SL users have upgraded within the past year and will thus be able to run Sansar already. People who upgraded two years ago will be less able to.
I suspect that it will take about a year for Sansar to pick up enough steam to start drawing consumer-only users in in numbers. I think that will spur a wave of increasing upgrading of hardware. The same thing happened in SL's early days. Honestly, I don't think it will be just Sansar that does it, though. I think there is already a wave of new VR apps and other games that rely on newer-generation video cards that are creating significant upgrade pressure.
In short, I think a lot of upgrading would happen naturally, but also that Sansar and other newer games and VR systems will spur lots of people to upgrade over Sansar's first (public) year.
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Reid Parkin I joined SL in 2007. I remember the lag and the constant crashes whenever I went to a popular place, all the hours of down time, and being dumped at some unknown place with many others when we managed to log back in again. But I was determined and persistent, and so were many others in those early days when it first started to become popular. Why did we all persist, and why did I save to buy a stronger computer? Because SL had so much to offer. People fell in love with SL from their first day. And so we were happy to grow with it, despite all the problems. Sansar needs this type of appeal.
Now In saying all that, there are still so many people in SL who have low end computers. We want these people, and we need them. When I create for SL residents I keep them in mind. It would be so much easier if I didn't have to - ask any good mesh builder in SL. So, I try to build decent low LOD levels, and I keep in mind those who can't see materials such as bump and specular. I make sure my items look decent enough on low end computers, not just high. Because there are too many of these people to ignore them - they keep me in profit.
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Debi Baskerville I run Sansar quite well on a five year old machine. I don't use a VR headset, nor will I ever most likely, because I can't even handle 3D movies at the theater without needing to throw up. I do not want the Lindens to "dumb down" Sansar just so people who don't have adequate machines can run it. I want Sansar to be as cutting edge as the Lindens can make it. Otherwise, I'd just stay in SL.
As for a stipend, the Lindens are basically giving you that now in the form of three free experiences and absolutely no cost to import your creations. So, if you don't want to use "plastic" make something and sell it to earn money to buy the creations of others. If you say, but I'm not a creator, then learn. :)
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Reid Parkin And in SL anyway, there isn't any strong indication that these low end computer users are decreasing. It would be so much easier if the vast majority had LOD factor set at 4, and quality and speed performance set between high and ultra. But I don't believe this is the case.
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Reid Parkin @Debi
Not dumb down. You don't have to dumb down something to make it work more efficiently. As I said, my fans don't work so hard anymore, so they are working on it and improving it. SL was never dumbed down, but over time we crashed less, lag became less etc etc. Nothing was dumbed down in SL to stop crash lag. Sansar has to work on the performance, and they are doing that.
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Reid Parkin but if focusing more on desktop users and a bit less on VR is dumbing down, then maybe they should. Obviously, they would want to attract as many users as possible.
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Galen There is so much ballyhoo about desktop users being left behind, but there's almost nothing you can do in VR mode that you can't do in desktop mode. Pretty much the only thing you can't do right now is pick stuff up and throw it. And point at someone and see their name, but that will likely be a quick fix. Meanwhile, desktop mode has so many things that VR mode does not. I wouldn't worry too much about users with older computers who aren't doing VR being left behind.
The first computer I used with SL really struggled to run it. It didn't have a video card capable of doing it justice. It took a while before I got a decent upgrade. And I, too, dealt with lots of crashing and undesirable behavior by the servers. Linden Lab may be developing sansar in a much more conservative fashion, now, but one upshot is that it is overall so much more stable. And remember that I joined 5 years after they went into an early alpha stage. And you joined 2 years after. SL had had a lot of time to mature before we arrived.
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Galen By the way, my expensive gaming computer turns out to be overkill. I get over 200 frames per second pretty much everywhere in Sansar. And I've been surprised by the stories people are telling here in the forum about what kinds of old machines and even an iPhone that people are able to run sansar on.
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NorthernKiara LL and SL future investments
Someone has heard what the people want.....
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Debi Baskerville I'm all for optimization. I just don't want Sansar to be limited by those who refuse to spend the money to upgrade their systems. Considering how old my machine is and runs it quite well, people should be able to afford a decent machine to run Sansar. :)
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NorthernKiara Sansar will be limited by what they can provide to users. If they can’t provide an optimized experience for the average user then user numbers will stay low.
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Lex @Gindippel
I asked what you mean with "So let's put some service behind your idea. " Bug Hunting i know.
@Debi BaskervilleTrue. Creator Free Trial will end on 10/31/17 for me, but i guess you can make money (if you want) with-out free creator trail.I understand.No Stipend then!!! -
Debi Baskerville Lex, the free creator trial will end, yes, but you will still have three free experiences even after that ends. I haven't even used the extra two that come with the free creator trial.
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Lex @Debi, Yup I did know what you said about creating and selling is possible even without pay account. Not sure about the upload fee but we will see. The stipend isn't for myself i thought it would be a nice idea. I'm not here for the money, just like in SL i don't sell, like to help people to realize there vision in there/here For fun not work. And to keep it as cheap is it can be. I see nobody needs a stipend :) i give up and go to do fun stuff :)
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NorthernKiara @Reid
"...then it confirms I have made the right decision, as i'm guessing many others have or will do. Go away and come back in a few years time."
I am a bit disappointed about some things in Sansar and also very pleased about some things but right now it's not enough to justify spending a lot of time here creating or exploring. I agree that..... maybe in a few years there might be enough in Sansar to actually work and play with.
My current PC handles Sansar just fine in PC mode (it's now about 5 years old even) ..... I don't plan on upgrading anytime soon. And I am seriously NOT interested in a VR headset....no ... not interested in becoming cyborg.
Most 3d-world-interested people are just not going to upgrade their PC's so they can come into Sansar to buy our wonderful creations or see our beautiful experiences.
At the moment I am craving particles...particle of tiny lights that blink and float gently about......they would be so pretty around my stone circle at Druid's grove.
/me hopes the Sansar Gods are listen in on all this
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Reid Parkin Hi NorthernKiara,
Yeah, I agree with you. I spent about 6 solid months here. It isn't justified financially, yet. But now that I'm set up, I can leave it. Just check sales, use the forums, visit an experience now and then, and have a peek in discord.
The time I spent in Sansar was worth it because I definitely came away with much more experience than when I started. I learnt so much from other creators here. I'm thankful for that.
There seems to be so much to learn in Sansar, and I really can't afford the time. Especially if things keep changing. I'll come back in a year and give it another few months.
As for a headset, I would get motion sickness. I already know without trying. So, it isn't worth it for me to buy one.
I visited your experience. It's very well done :)
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Charmarley Nightfire @ Reid - just to let you know. I always get motion sickness easily. I don't last five minutes on any size of boat, I also get bad vertigo and honestly, I'm now in VR for ages at a time and I'm fine (laptop isn't after a few hours though as I discovered when trouble shooting wierd lag at 3am this morning!).
I also got motion sickness when I used a cheap mobile cardboard jobby and with the vibe nothing!
Can i just say, you really must see your creations in VR, but also see Sansars editing technology, it's cracking!
My thought's are that it will be a good two years before the millions arrive, but I genuinely believe they will. These users won't buy the hardware needed yet, but in the meantime businesses are all over it!
The money making opportunity right now is outside of Sansar. Being the .'connection' for businesses to be innovative, forward thinking and ahead of their competition. They can't get sign off on having someone sit there internally creating the VR experiences they need day in day out. But that's what we do and it's incredibly valuable.
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