Especially for the less experienced but also as convenience for everyone, il could be a idea add to Import panel a tab where see the real dimension of a object and can set real world units in a dropdown menu. Happens often to listen ei this object is too big or too small because people import objects taken from many sources on web, but not always they are set in the right unit. And a control about dimensions can be useful for all.

• Gindipple

Actually unitless works quite well.

If an object is 1x1x1 you're free to call it meters, feet, yards or miles.

The FBX file doesn't contain units either, and this is because it is simply a mathematical model.

Think of it this way, if I tell you to turn 1/4 of a circle about the z-axis

You could say you've turned 90 degrees, or you could say you've turned pi/2 radians or you could say 100 gradians.

As far as math is concerned you've turned 1/4 turn about the z-axis.

This gives you maximum freedom.

Scaling is the same thing, something is twice as big as it was. Units are irrelevant.

That said it is best if you use metric system for your abstract unit of measure. Most of the scientific world uses it.

• Livio Korobase

yes, the fbx contain units and dimensions (just make a fbx in ASCII format and you can see all the necessary with a simple diff). i agree with metric system, but the problem was not how do, but allow resize and rescaling for objects coming from market and badly sized, maybe in yards or too big or small for be resized with gizmo handles. Actually for what i know Sansar don't read unit scale, if you import two objects 1x1x1 one in decimeter, the other in kilometers in Sansar they appear the same. I think is wrong.

decimeters and kilometers declared in fbx (exported from Maya, using the Units tab in FBX export settings):

 P: "UnitScaleFactor", "double", "Number", "",10 P: "UnitScaleFactor", "double", "Number", "",100000
Edited by Livio Korobase
• Galen

I believe you are right that it ignores the units and does not do conversions to its internal system. Also, it's apparent to me that Sansar uses meters. The grid pattern in the basic scene template has 1 meter grid lines, for instance. Put an object out and use whole integer Position numbers. It'll line up perfectly with the grid lines. A visual comparison of your avatar will show you that you would fit, lying down, across about two of those grid boxes; hence, two meters.

• Livio Korobase

Yes i think same. The problem come with software as Sculptris, 3D Paint, ZSoft etc where you can't set a dimension of your object. So in Sansar you can get all sort of dimensions from too small to too big, and not always the gizmo handles are enough. In SL with DAE this option exist and work, why don't do also in Sansar.

• gfcprogramer

A tiny FBX.SDK one applet can simulate the process doing a zoom extends adding a bounding box measure, a reference human shape tiny on the corner or taking all aplet image buffer, in a tiny pre-visualization output image with measures apha overlay with a spinner that you can change the overall sise of the object being imported. Easy to see. Easy to talk. It demands work. in sl we have something simillar but this one could be more real time, giving much more feedback of the real time adjustment of the object size to the user/creator.

Edited by gfcprogramer
• Livio Korobase

Yes, a reference on screen is also more useful. But i think they are already thinking on this, because on the help page is suggested to use meters or feet, because etc etc, but the phrase end with " at this time".

• Ethos Erlanger

The unit base of either Meters or Feet is not relevant to this request by Livio for a scaling system that is not currently built into the Sansar import routine. The heart of this matter is in the intention of Sansar that modelers should make things in the size that is of value to them once it is in Sansar. In the majority of cases, this should be a size that is complimentary to the standard avatar sizes for both a male and female avatar. The seat of a chair is approximately 16 inches above the floor. And the height of this seat can be measure on BOTH Metric and Imperial and the chair does not change. What Livio is asking Sansar to do is make it easy for her to create chairs (or any of her objects) any size in any program and change that size when she uploads them to Sansar. If I made all my chairs the CORRECT size for an avatar to sit on, I would never need to change their size when I upload them. When would you model anything that is half size or 2x size which would need to be corrected when you upload it? The modeling software is already capable of making things the correct size. Why would you stop short of finishing the modeling in the 3D program that you choose to use? If you went to the furniture store and bought a chair, and when you brought it home, would you need to change the size of the chair as you stepped through the door to your house? And if the furniture maker made your chair using metric dimensions would you increase or decrease the size of the chair so that you could sit on it? Sansar is the same as real life in regard to the size of things. Just make things the RIGHT size. Then you will not have to change them.

Edited by Ethos Erlanger
• Ethos Erlanger

Livio, I do not use one of the software packages that you mention such as Sculptris, 3D Paint, ZSoft. If you make a model of something in one of those software packages today, are you telling me that those software packages do not show you any unit? Are all objects 1 unit long or are the units not shown to you? If you make a box that is 1 unit x 1 unit x 1 unit in ZSoft, what size is in ZSoft? Can you import a model avatar from Sansar into ZSoft and make things that fit the avatar? You will not need to know the numbers of the object that describe the height, width and length; You just need to know that the objects are made just right for the avatar. Do all the sizing in the application that you use.

Edited by Ethos Erlanger
• Ethos Erlanger

Here is a link to a video about ZBrush and how to create the size you want. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjreH90ZVJ4 I was not able to find any tutorials for ZSoft

• Ethos Erlanger

I am unsure if 3D Paint is a part of Maya from Autodesk, but there is a help file to show you how to set units of measure in Maya here: https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/maya/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2015/ENU/Maya/files/Basics-Windows-and-Editors-Settings-preferences-htm.html

Edited by Ethos Erlanger
• Ethos Erlanger

I believe that all of the software that you are describing has a "scale" function that you could use to increase or decrease the size of the objects before you export the objects.

• Livio Korobase

Yes they have a resize tool, but with no reference. the only manner for size correctly a object is put on scene a reference with know dimensions. There are not rulers or a panel with object informations as in blender or maya, and you can resize only dragging handles, with obvious precision problems.

• Livio Korobase

Maya don't have this sort of problem, as Blender, 3D Studio, Modo, ecc.

• Livio Korobase

I looked the video about ZBrush you cited, and he only confirm what i am telling. Ok, with some tricks and a complex procedure you can maybe see the object dimensions, but is much more simple have a little UI at sansar import procedure, i think. If your ead comments at this video, you understand what i mean. The only working solution is model a bounding box in another software, put the box on stage and work with this as reference.

But the major problem that i see is for people that are not professional, and they finish on import off scale objects that Sansar don't allow to resize at the desider dimension. There are many discussions about in Slack.

• Ethos Erlanger

Livio, You mentioned things that come from "market". Did you mean items that are purchased from the Sansar Store? Or did you mean something that was purchased on the internet? If a creator made something for the Sansar Store and it is too large or too small, then they are the ones who did a poor job of modeling their product to be a useful size. However, if someone selling an item on the internet and made it the size they wanted it to be, they may not have known that you wanted it to be used in Sansar. The buyer of the item should be capable of finding a useful software that can do this for them before they bring it into Sansar. There are free software packages out on the internet that are capable of importing FBX models and changing their size for everyone. The software that I chose to use for creating objects for Sansar was selected for its features of being able to scale and size entire objects based on it bounding box size. Some creators choose software that might not be as easy to use for getting an exact size. Those are the choices we all make as we learn to model. Sansar cannot be expected to accommodate every software that we might choose to use. Have you asked the ZBrush developers to add those features to their software? They might be able to do that just as easily as Sansar.

• Livio Korobase

There are many source of objects on internet, and not all are done by professional or in some manner standardized. And why someone have to use a software just for resize/rescale? I don't understand your doubts, is the same feature that we have in SL client, why don't add to Sansar also since he aim to be the wordpress of virtual world, differently than ZBrush, made for professionals?

Edited by Livio Korobase