I have the GTX 1070, but as I noticed when trying to use Sansar on my lower-end PC, I wasn't able to load the client, I started to wonder.
Will Sansar eventually become available to those without expensive computers? I can imagine there would be tons more of people using Sansar right about now only if they were able to.
Sansar has a lot of potential and I'd only love to see it grow beyond the company's expectations. I can only hope that you guys open the doors up to the masses.
I was thinking the min requirements right now won't be expensive computers in a couple of years...just hoping another ground breaking platform doesn't get there earlier!
Hey Emo, what's your price range for "expensive"? I've seen fully VR-capable desktops and laptops in the USD$1,000-1,500 range. It's just VR mode which is relatively demanding, which is not particular to Sansar.
Note that for desktop mode, you can run it on a computer that's even lower-end: https://help.sansar.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002967023-System-requirements — does your lower-end PC exceed those specs?
@Charmarley Nightfire, I agree.
@Torley, I'd say the range you've mentioned would be fairly expensive. Though my computer is within that range, I know not everyone can have can have a computer within that budget. I know a few people whose computers are priced around $300-$500 and wouldn't be able to handle Sansar. I'm basically talking about those people who are below the minimum requirements. I can bet there would be an increase in the amount of users if/once there's availability to everyone (including mac users).
It's true (as it often is) that continued adoption will drive down prices and give more power! Even very basic computers nowadays are capable of some 3D creation and gaming.
USD$1,000-$1,500 is about midrange.
Although, a quick search shows this $800 VR-capable one: https://elitegamingcomputers.com/good-cheap-gaming-computers/
And http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-pc-builds,4390.html has also been very reputable.
(Macs though, ain't gonna come cheap...)
Remember, Sansar isn't unusual or particularly demanding in its requirements — it even looks better and plays smoother than Second Life on a lower-spec PC — and if time is on our side, more people will be able to enjoy it, and I'm glad you are encouraging that!
I hope they keep the bar higher than $3-500 that is way too low for a computer. a $1000 every 2-3 years is pretty standard these days for a PC
USA starndards...
After a good cup of BR Coffee, here comes the tongue or keyboard..:)
I think you don't have the last OpenGL 3.5 or so...support in your processor, GTX1070 is GREAT. You're probably using AMD FX. Right?
I'm using the lower end Radeon RX250 2GB RAM. And my processor was the highest of the cheap APU out there when I bought them.
New processor so it works with all, slow, crashing sometimes. but works!!!
Its not my choice. I want a better one too. I'm doomed with this one, and I love my only Wolks PC. :)
I have been in Sansar, and my MAIN computer cannot handle larger levels like 101 etc....
I will stay in Sansar while it works for me. I can make my light resource levels that shine my heart in art.
If they upgrade to some point I have no options on performance, like happened with others Crying engines in the past, I will have to stop.
In beta is natural to programmers put Optimizations as "last in the list", and to force people upgrade on a very strong machines like Doom3 did in the past.
Brasil is out of the map. Locked in Past. Doomed, Forgotten.
A piece of computer here is at least tree more more expensive (without taxes).
Is like the difference between Apple and Google.
Who is right?
Here only 1% of population is rich enough to have apple products.
China is not different....
I'm glad Linden Laabs let us, non-americans to play Sansar.. WAAAI!
For making a good use of computer resources and yet offer a wide different computer support, they needs a huge team of expensive programmers on performance.... And yet they can fail to make it accessible.
Because the market team want to put a higher low, so no ugly images spread over internet. But because of this, Sansar also seduces people.
Maybe they are right.
Just not so smart...for all problem there is a solution.
Google at my time was not so popular.
Popular... people? Who cares?
I know most enterprise have not the most wise decisions, I'm so glad they can let me have part on this, being a use, a creator, even with so poor resources, in the country that embrace me. Brasil.
Torley, glad to see you involved in Sansar too, it makes me feel more at home ;)
We could use more advice like this, Just plain, old and clear responses that we can work with. Sansar users are, well... most of us, are having fun but we/me miss you tricks and tips!
@Bluebell Welcome to Sansar and thank you!
I've mainly been working on Sansar audio stuff — like UI sounds and music, soundscapes for the Sansar Studios scenes — but we're planning a series of new video tutorials... :)
In a year, the performance of a $1500 gaming desktop will likely be available in a $500 laptop. It makes more sense for Sansar to be geared up for higher end machines now while it is still in beta.
i can use Sansar with my very little Gigabyte Brix GB-BXA8G-8890, 6x12x12 cm. computer, enough well. SL in ultra is impossible. I payed this computer 150 euro used in Ebay. This is a extreme example, but find computer good enough for run Sansar at less than 500 is easy.
AMD Richland APU A8-5557M
AMD Radeon R9 M275X graphic card
Ehm
Considering the radical changes in CPu and GPU market happening in these last few weeks, and considering that apparently Sansar is far from being featured enough to make games on, I would definitely look at at least having sansar request 6 multi threaded cores and at least 6 teraflops of graphics power on 4k monitors.
these are specs for low end computers in 2018 and if it was for me id definitely double that GPU requirements to be honest as by the time Sansar has beta done with, it is inevitable to have advanced subsurface scattering complex materials and way more complex lighting to catch up with graphics that is already available in games this year.
It honestly does not make any sense into creating a new platform if the humanoids and characters cannot look anyway better than second life, in a year where close to perfect 3d humans are being released in some titles, and will be the dominant thing next year.
I dont even wanna mention the hair detail nor the plants translucency....who knows about fresnel and much more needed to be supported.
So yeah a 300 500 dollar computer is likely not even good to use social media, if you dont knwo how to keep it clean, and if You will be a power Sansar user You will likely spend AT LEAST 100 extra dollars for a dedicated gaming hard drive storage, as every experience You visit caches up tons of gygas in Your hard drive.
While You can by cheap used stuff on ebay as Livio suggested, if You aiming at spending 500 dollars for gaming, maybe You should start gaming first to understand what You need.
As Torley suggests spending 1000 dollars for a gaming pc is really a minimum amount if You are on a really low resolution display and YOU DO NOT USE A VR HEADSET or do not care to get at least 60 fps minimum frame rates.
A reasonable price for a gaming computer that will be good enough for 5 years is around 1500 dollars if YOU do not need to buy a monitor.
Please do note that as time passes all games get more and more complex with more and more detail polygons and textures.
AND LAST Sansar game engine is based on Umbra 3d which already is a fantastic tool to allow low or high end computers render the game at what their computer is capable of automatically, but You cannot ask for it to run on a crappy dual core Crappy Mac laptop or a computer that has less graphics power than a smartphone.
Another thgn to consider is that AMD did not license Intel to use integrated graphics in their CPUs when Nvidia ditched the renewal of the licensing...this means that Intel WILL NOT Have nor will ever have anymore integrated graphics processors, like many old time users had in the past when they first moved from 2d chats to Second life....You will need to buy a graphics card...I give You the link to a shop where u can see graphics cards prices and there u can see which one costs less and will run Sansar on Your monitor resolution.
It doesnt matter where the shop is, what matters is that You look at Nvdia or AMD GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) cards and doesnt even matter if You know what You need, look for the cheapest You can find....the add:
1 CPU
2 Motherboard
3 Ram memory
4 Hard drive
5 Power Supply
6 More Hard drives
7 Case/chassis
8 Shipping costs
When You wlil receive the component and have someone assemble all of this for You if Y0u do not know to do it Yourself, then install that cheapest graphics card You have bought, and if You made a wise choice Sansar will run.
I will post You a recent Famous You tuber video on budget gaming computers, and that wil be veyr helpful for YOu and might help You build something respectable given the fact that I assume like many others money doesnt fall from trees every day for You as well.
But keep in mind , it will always be a computer You spend money on that will never be able to run everything with a decent user experience and immersion nor responsiveness...but it will be capable to let You play some games even if I am not sure if You will get decent FPS on Sansar when any experience will be really fully loaded with stuff avatars and stuff going on around You.
In this moment Sansar has very desolated experiences with pretty much nothing happening in them (I mean scripts and a lot of physics events)
Good luck and I hope You have debugged Your Sansar not running properly on Your 1070
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoqO-JkmlnQ
Just for fun over my coffee this morning I chose a set of components for a complete machine that will run sansar.
https://pcpartpicker.com/user/simonOctocore/saved/#view=PNcTHx
Maybe the people who can only afford a $300-$500 computer and are on fixed incomes won't have the extra money to even spend money in Sansar.
LL wants Sansar to make money for them.
That's kinda the bottom line really.
If you can afford to buy a decent gaming/graphics computer then you can probably create content and/or have funds to purchase content and probably a subscription too.
And ....if you have the VR Head Gear and can create "highly detailed" content you will probably sell items that are higher priced. (Sansar gets a cut on the sales.) So....from a business stand point....(speaking of business models)...what demographic are you going to want to attract in order to make money?
I agree with your point, NorthernKiara, but based on what I've read about Sansar since I first heard about it some years ago, it was always intended to appeal to a wide ranging audience.
LL don't want another niche market cul-de-sac (like they already have with SL), they seem to want a VR platform that will attract a more diverse audience. The bigger that potential audience is, the more likely it is that they'll make money.
They missed out on getting the drop on their competitors with SL, and had their thunder (and market share) stolen by other platforms that were easier to use right from the get-go, and Sansar is clearly LL's attempt to get in on what they think will be the future of online interaction for a mass audience.
Not everyone longs to be a content creator, and not everyone cares to spend a fortune on VR goggles. The more readily accessible Sansar is, the more likely it is to be adopted by a general audience/user base.
I always think back to the Betamax/VHS scenario - the one that was cheaper defeated the one that had the best picture quality and went on to became the dominant format. Being the most technically sophisticated option is no guarantee of ongoing success.
Yes, I'm old.
One way of thinking about Sansar is that it is still being created in a laboratory. It's still in the R&D phase. LL is more interested right now in getting the essential pieces in place and not as interested in the packaging. Thankfully, they have opened up their lab to allow some of us to get a sneak peek and get a head start on content creation.
When you think about it this way, it starts to make sense why LL is doing what they are doing. They really do intend to make this a product with general usage. They want everyone in the world in Sansar if they can make it happen. But just not yet. It kinda takes cojones for them to take it slow and steady like this.
That said, I want everything now, too. :-)
@NorthernKiara
a 300/500 computer as you call it is a simple desktop that in no way is designed or has components other than to support simple secretary windows office tasks.
If You want to budget a VR gaming pc , then I might suggest you first budget the interface parts which are.
1Mouse
2Keyboard
3Monitor or TV
4Speakers or and headset
5HMD.
Then once You budgeted these components, start seeing what is the minimum price for a decent 6 core CPU and what motherboard and ram memory it will need to run on...and what GPU you will need to be capable to transmit the information you need on your visual interface parts.
As for the 300/500 dollars, that is the entry price for one single component needed for gaming desktops which is the graphics card 50$ plus or minus.
@Simeon
I am not sure what you mean by SL being niche, as it is free to play on .
As for VR, considering that next gen HMD will beat least 144hz HMD out of the 244hx at 16kx16k pixels that will be the goal for VR displays and refresh rates....it is safe to say that VR is a niche thing excellent for industrial engineering, manufacturing, military, medicine architecture, and maybe one day if all these industries and its professionals move on into something else then VR will be something affordable for the over 100 million current gamers in the world.
@Galen
Sansar creators platform apart forever development that any suite has, is basically what You see is what you get.
In few words this is it....this is the product, and even with the noblest of intentions, it is not designed for general mainstream usage.....the experiences are.
@ COCA Yven - When I say SL is a niche product, I mean that it appeals only to a certain demographic. The loyal long term SL residents who remain active form the basis of that community, but we all know that there are many more avatars than there are current, ongoing users in SL. How many people arrive, mess around for a short while, then simply abandon SL? How many people have multiple avatars? Many classic sims have simply disappeared, and have not been replaced with newer or more complex versions. Often, they're just too expensive to bother maintaining. There's a lot of 'abandoned land' in SL these days.
I'd assume that the people who show up briefly then leave for good outnumber the amount of regular, ongoing users; and even fewer people who stay actually become significant content creators, builders, scripters, etc.
SL is free, but it's also a sort of odd curiosity. It's been around long enough to have acquired a reputation of sorts, but it doesn't attract new people in droves. What LL wants is something along the lines of a Facebook or an Instagram - they want something that will be popular to a mainstream audience (whatever mainstream means in this day and age).
SL is still profitable or they'd have shut it down, but nothing lasts forever. That it's lasted this long is remarkable.
As far as VR goggles being niche and expensive - I agree. It's clear that LL think they're on to something, though, or they wouldn't be spending the time & money on Sansar's Oculus Rift capabilities. People said the same thing about the concept of home computers, though, (too expensive, no need for them outside of industrial applications, it'll never catch on) and look where we are with them now.
And yes, the experiences are the mainstream part, I agree. As I say, I'm not a coder or builder. I want the experiences to be easy to...well, experience.
@Galen - I appreciate that Linden Labs are being cautious, and that it might be a wise approach, but I hope they don't hesitate for too long.
LL has SL and Sansar. The 2 are not related other then both being a platform brought by LL. Samsung sells TV's, notebooks, those are both Samsung but not remotely the same. Both also have different market targets.
Sansar can be heavy, yes, but so can SL. It depends not only on your gear, it depends also on the place you visit. Is it large, is it optimized, are there large textures, is the a lot of different textures?
Sansar is as accessible as SL, in desktop. If you have trouble in SL, you will in Sansar and vice versa.
Pls let us not divide, let us visit across both platforms, make friends, just chill and see where it all strands.
I agree completely, Bluebell - I'm not seeking to create division, simply stating an opinion.
I am (obviously) a long term SL resident, and while I appreciate that Sansar is different, I'd still like certain features present in the viewer that I find useful. That's all I'm saying.
I have no issues at all running Sansar or SL...I just like certain camera functions and feel they'd make the viewer more enjoyable to use.
It's also the case that LL isn't just going after SL users to 'switch over' to Sansar - they want to attract a much wider audience and have ambitions for Sansar to become like WordPress. That's the analogy Ebbe Altberg has used, anyway.
I'm not attempting to do anything other than state an opinion. I've said more than once that I want Sansar to succeed, or I wouldn't be spending time on this forum or exploring various experiences in Sansar itself.
If I didn't care, I wouldn't comment at all.