I where glad sansar not support floating nametags. It's really littering the world. Now last week i did see a bad thing. nametags that people add by them self.
I want to have that disabled on all my experiences.
I really hate that nametag littering. I did hate it in secondlife. But can turn it off.
But How do we turn it off in sansar ?
I don't believe there is any way to turn off self-attached nametags. I think those are attached to an avatar like an accessory, i.e. Hat. But I could be wrong.
Noo i think your pretty right. And that's the nightmare.
So technical you need to make a rule. No hovering name tags allowed.
<sarcasm>
Yes, I too would like to derender some of the uglier avatars I see, is this possible?
One guy has on wings, I do not like wings, can I derender him?
</sarcasm>
haha yea.. I actually also dont like it.. but I guess some people just find it so important everybody instantly knowing who they are. :P I dont belive there is a derender feature yet
So yeah I get you don't like them.
However name tags have been a nice first attachment project for people as far as attachments go.
Also some of them are pretty cool and have some great expression.
It's also hard to know who is talking or typing so nametags were born from that. Not about wanting people knowing who they are but who they are talking to.
Calling it "litter" is kinda mean. It's above our avatars and self expression. Also how would you know a mesh is a name tag or not? Does it stop at name tags?
I personally don't like the idea of Sansar making rules to dictate content. I wouldn't mind you being able to hide any mesh or avatar you'd like to hide. (Maybe ignore/mute can do this?)
@Gindipple Whatcha saying about my wings brah? :)
Sorry man, I had to pick the most awesome attachment in Sansar to make the point :)
Only way to "solve" this is to implement them officially, built-in, so people don't resort to attachments. An official implementation could allow us to turn them off client-sided only, via a settings page.
Making it possible to disable other people's attachments is a slippery slope. What if your avatar's clothes were just an attachment? Someone could make you nude. That'd be an awful privacy invasion.
Good point Theanine.
Also this is more of an issue for desktop users as VR users can click on people to see their names.
Well, I felt the negative energy when I wore mine, but it was Gindipple's fault, He helped get mine working. He did it. I was under peer pressure, yeah, that's it.
So, I have conformed and now wear a simple paper name tag on my shirt.
You are wlecome.
@ Jesse. But Sansar is already "dictating" the content. You can not make sexual content. Also they already said they dont want nametags to break the immersion
@ Theanine there will most probably never be floating name tags, but you'll be able to check out names in desktop mode, just as you could in VR mode. About being able to see who is talking.. ever thought about to apply the same rules like you would in real? If you are interested in who the person that is talking is, you could ask :) Next time could tell by either their look or their voice. I dont see Sansar to ever be about the ease of social distance. To me it seems if someone is making a nametag for themselfs it expresses that they feel the urge for everyone in the room to know who they are right from the start.No unnecessary questions, no social strugle to overcome. So from my point of view nametags limit you more than what they give to you. But well.. that's just.. probably food for thoughts. Personally I felt more relaxed once I turned off nametags in SL. On my screen I could blend in, into my surroundings and other people as well.
@jess, only the floating name tags are ugly. The ones people wear on clothing are fine. But the floating ones keeps litter on my screen.
@Theanine , sounds like that is the only solution. Unless the implement some system like you have when you use HMD
@Gindipple, Lol. Now what's next. the avatar eating fridge ?
Just saying what I prefer and largely think that limiting adult content has more to do with public perception and liability without a rating system. I'm not a big adult content person myself but have seen many people wanting it. A community standards is absolutely necessary though.
I wear nametags at social or networking events. It does help speed up interaction. Not everyone is an extrovert.
Mostly wanted to offer a different opinion. That I do like seeing peoples name tags and wearing one myself. It kinda hurts that others think it's purely a vanity choice for inflating ones ego and call it littering. Largely we're replicating what was done with name tags in other virtual worlds and mmos. There is some usefulness in it. Some do let you hide them by default and letting you see them when you select the player, but we couldn't' do that right now.
I honestly think if there was a way to view peoples names on desktop name tags would probably be a fad that is no longer necessary as they wouldn't really be needed. However I really like things like this because it's a natural reaction by from the user base. It's my opinion that overtly controlling the user base usually doesn't work out. There are so many games to play and things to do nowadays.
Name tags should be a feature that the xpereince developer should code himself if relevant to the game he is offering.
But dont worry You will soon be able to code what people wear when visiting Your experience, so if You make a mars place You will not have tropical bikini with name tags attached on top
Name tags are needed. They can be implemented like in Second Life. We can show them, we can hide them. Also when hovering mouse on the avatar the name pops up when the name tags are hidden. Very good and useful feature. In a crowd it's difficult to determine who's who if there is no way to see avatar names.
yep I agree too. Sorry Richardus, but I just think any opportunity to personalise in anyway people want is another opportunity for creativity, even if just font's in a name tag...and this is not because I've just worked out how to add mine and want to where it :)
No seriously, I do think it's useful in a large crowd
No they are not needed. There are handy in the beta for simple interaction with others. But down the road people will have wildly different experiences. If you have a social experience where you specifically want your visitors to have name tags then you could implement such a thing. But if someone else wants to make a game and that concept would ruin their immersion then they could not allow it.
People are going to have to step outside the Second Life box and see the bigger picture here.
When you go to experience XYZ they may very well dictate your avatar and clothing if any. This is going to be up to that creator.
Since many people do come from Second Life and are expecting a reproduction of that I fully expect some creators will do just that. And Linden Labs has fully said you'll be able to do just that. Recreate a portion of SL in here.
Go do a google search on "unity based games" see what is possible.
In many experiences you're going to be more likely to have a health bar than a name tag :)
No nametags are not needed, especially in large groups.
One reason why i did turn it off in SL, you did only see nametags and the whole immersive where gone.
I agree with Gindipple
Anyway, there's still a problem. What if yoo not want to restrict the avatar types. But not want to see floating nametags ?
and what if the creator of the experience wanted a total immersion, so the players are not able to determine by default if someone is a player or a npc? Floating nametags can destroy an entire gameplay. If you go into a bar and there is a shy person he /she probably dont even want everyone to know his/her name anyway. I dont see how default nametags help gameplay or interaction in any way. If it is required for everyone to know everyones name in a round, then everyone can introduce themselfs and you would already recognize them by the voice. Jenn always talked about the.. I dont quite remember how she called it.. but kind of like the common ways of verbal interaction. That's one of those. you dont wear a nametag when you go into a pub. The only place I wear nametags in real is on very formal meetings or at work and even there I'd rather introduce myself to people I want to talk to. Sansar is kind of all about that.
yeh ok fair point, you've swung me!
I think LL should take a strong lesson from this debate. By not implementing and controlling nametags themselves, they've pushed residents to create their own. I consider this significantly worse.
Frankly, I like SL's floating nametags and really want them in Sansar. Have you noticed that when you take snapshots in SL, they don't include nametags, in deference to the idea that you want different things in different contexts? And you can turn them off in preferences.
If LL wants to minimize the invasiveness of nametags, they really should implement them directly.
If you're arguing for banning nametags so people can get to know one another the (dumb) old fashioned way, then you must be in favor of disabling the method available to us in VR mode right now. In fact, you probably will be in favor of LL never giving us public profiles to manage.
I have just about the worst memory imaginable for people's names. It is a lifelong embarrassment to me. SL's strong profile and nametag mechanisms liberate me from this. I take notes on just about everyone I meet in the "Notes" section of their profiles. I really don't want Sansar to be a step back. I'd rather have the choice to ignore all this information than to have ignorance forced on me.
Galen, it's a good point. if the do it like the have done it in VR mode. Point at avatar and click a key to see the name would be the best way. No littering and still option to see who is who.
I'd be content with that solution, combined with profiles.
I even admit I like the idea of having some (rare) experiences where people's identities are obscured. But practically speaking, you'd have to change your appearance, lest people recognize you. So maybe the better option is to have an alt for that purpose. And then obscured identities isn't necessary.
"pushed residents to create their own" XD only the ego pushed them. I never seen anybody felt pushed to create a name tag at a pub. I dont even see anybody feeling pushed to create a own name tag if he didnt got one at a conference xD Maybe you just come in here with expections you had from other platforms, that dont fit the concept of this place. Especially thinking of the younger generation I think they will pretty much welcome the annonymosity of no name tag at all when I see that hardly any of todays pupils use facebook or other social platforms and rather only deal with close friends. I would welcome if by default nametags are in general turned off and if someone feels like they should have other people be able to see their names in social rooms, then they can activate it in their profile.
Name tag should be ABSOLUTELY never allowed by default on a platform designed to create games or scenes
SANSAR IS NOT A GAME, SANSAR IS NOT SECOND LIFE
SANSAR IS NOT CLUB PENGUIN
SANSAR IS NOT A COMMUNITY BASED GAME.
Sansar is a games shop *(the ATLAS) where people can go visit for free or pay .
Sansar is an asset outlet that allows assets only to be used within the Sansar client
Sansar is also the only viable usable suite to allow to assemble, code, and set, to upload experiences, at this moment.
While I strongly believe that the ATLAS will go through radical modifications but over all keep the same principle, I also strongly believe that it will be very probable that Sansar one day will also support 3rd party experience gaming development suites, to stay up to pace with competition, which is light years ahead and will make it impossible for Linden Lab ever to overtake or even keep pace with more and more newer gaming , rendering physics technologies that surface to content creators on a almost quarterly basis now.
Name tags should appear to the client precisely how and where and with the design the experience developer needs and wants them to be, in congruence to his plot, theme and game play logic.
It is up to the experience developers to code how the avatars should look, what they should wear, what skeleton they should have if any, what inventory they should see and what name tags and game options are allowed to them.
Sansar is NOT a game shop. That is what you like tom make from it.
For others Sansar is a social experience. but please without the nametags !
At the end Sansar is a platform where people decide what the think it need to be in there own experience. Still no nametags by default please.
It's for sure not a Game shop. wrong term for a platform. For sure i do not see it as a game platform and not approach it as a game platform. Mabye some of my idea could be end in a game. But that's not my goal.
The thing of it is, it's what you and COCA both want.
Your experience can be all about social.
COCA's can be all about gaming.
These are isolated Experiences and each will be it's own thing.
@Gindipple
Hi there!
Sorry maybe I have not explained myself clearly .
This is not about what we like or dislike, of course if you go to an office hours and you see people talking you need to know who is talking and without name tags it is hard to find out....this is the reason for which I assume some people attach names to their characters which is fine.
The issue raised though is, that some believed these attachments to be SL like name tags...if that was the case and by default on Sansar it would be catastrophic the least.
Let me explain to You why.
a name tag uses a space and uses a style, and it i supposed to give some information.
Now
lets say, I make the USS enterprise with all officers and crew on board and You will play as part of an officer
I need You to have Yourself renamed precisely as the USS enterprise captain wants, and Me as developer need to code how it looks, and how it will appear.
Will it only show when i hover the mouse on Your character?
Will it be green to say You friend or yellow to say You foe?
Will it show to everyone, or will it show only to Your team so to avoid friendly fire, but at the same time NOT make You a target to the enemy.
Lets make another expample
Lets say I want to make a 2d cartoonish looking multiplayer scroll game, which is one of the easiest and most fun things that people will be able to build here, I can assure to You that those who will make good ones will make millions.
Now I need the gamers name tag to look like a cartoon clod bubble, with a certain font, with a certain background and to behave in a certain way.
These few simle examples should make You understand better , that while in SL everyone is in one same game, a game that has no scope...On Sansar every single different experience is as if it was another SL another Battlefield another wikipedia and another pac man.
Every experience has its needs to their design, You cannot Unify name tags like in SL on Sansar, only this little stupid thing can certainly warrant Sansar failing for good and shutting down.
Second life is currently staying a float for two main reasons
1 there are few individuals that know their ''shyte'', and make really perfect game ready props and assets for Your place, like homes trees furniture and other assets to embellish a simulator...it is only a handful, but they making strong RL income.
2 Avatar customization, again only a handful of really good content creators who know their ''shyte'' who sell avatars, props for them clothing and so on, and these same make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year
The rest pretty much in SL is dead and buried unless little niche specific here and there, or some good 3d artists who make good stuff but just not in enough quantity and variety so they hang on or some make a small fw hundred dollars a month
But Sansar is a totally different beast, while we can agree that it is still more in a pre alpha stage, completely featureless, very bugged, 4 5 years from now when i think a real beta will likely to end, if things are done properly You will have to things.
1 you will be able to sell here the same stuff you sell in second life, but in much less quantity because as I explained above Sansar is not a game, the experiences in it are, so You will sell less of the same
but You will sell more of one single item specific to a certain experience, but that is not where the money will be.
While avatar customization creators in SL are making their fortunes, they will not make the same on Sansar because, here who will make big numbers, is people who will make as i stated above 2d cartoonish scroll games.
Mars wars
sniper shooter games
advanced flight simulators
Advanced VR horror experiences, and so on
The amount of different situations styles and business models will be infinite...it will never be a place were everyone looks the same and you say hey, is that a maytria avatar!? or wow a Skye mesh beach!
The experiences will radically look different from one another big time with so many different hands styles and so on.
Now this takes us back to name tags!!
You simply CANNOT UNIFY name tags on Sansar, it would be as if you to to VALVE and tell them that from now on every player in every game on steam has to have the same name tag....and then You go To EPIC and say, from now one every character made for UE4 has to have the same name tag for every published game and also for every scene that will never be published too!!!
You could only be out of Your mind if You introduced unified name tags on Sansar and Linden Lab knows this very well...because Linden Lab is not in it for Sansar, to make a new SL to host another 1 million same clients which is really really little numbers in todays gaming numbers.
There are many titles out there that make over half a million sales the first year !!!
Linden Lab is making Sansar to host 20 50 million accounts and offer a different product and alternative to what You can find in Steam Shop libraries.
Do I think it will happen?!
at this very moment i think Sansar is likely to fail and shut.
However the staff is great, Linden Lab has all the resources they need, and if the nail it right they will definitely get there and have at all hours at least 4 6 million users logged in gaming, in hundreds of different titles one day.
People here on the Sansar forums should start to think more out of the SL box, and get a little more informed about how the game industry works, how game content creators work and what game studios look for...
and lets be frank, opening a steam account getting a decent 1500 2000 dollar pc and starting to game a little would help a lot too just as visiting gaming forums and you tube game reviews.
this can also be a good way to understand the intricate world of name tags.
cheers
COCA
