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For the Lazy -Like me...

Waldo

July 08, 2017 16:39

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It may be obvious to you experienced folks, but I personally have a lot of catching up in using Blender effectively, and I want to get started quickly.

https://free3d.com/  has a ton (16,139) of objects, some already in FBX FREE to download !

I havent done it yet, but a little tweaking and objects should be Sansar ready...

Hope this helps..

-W

They will have to add a category just for US ~ I can forsee that now HA !

also, don't forget Our Store ! Gracious Folks have a Ton of free objects for your creations !

50 comments

• -3
  
  RedFire July 10, 2017 22:19

  I tried it, but when i unzipped the files, I was not sure what to upload. Sansar won't take the files zipped, so don't know where to go from there. It didn't work for me. Let me know if you have success. 

• 0
  
  Ethos Erlanger July 11, 2017 03:44

  @RedFire, if they are an FBX file, bring them into Blender and make sure they are ready for Sansar. Ready means: the right size so you export them at 1:1 as an FBX file, UV unwrapped, Textured the way you want them to look save them with a name you like.... export as FBX, import into Sansar one object at a time.

• 8
  
  Prospero July 11, 2017 06:29

  Warning: most of the objects are licensed only for personal use. Opening a public experience with them can lead to problems..

  -----------

  But even more important: please do not start to import high resolution models which are not meant for a "game-engine"!!

  --------------------

  Please do not ruin Sansar from the start. The 3d models we use must be "optimized for a real-time game engine". We use low poly models, maybe with baked details into them - check out normal mapping on the wikipedia!

  This is a completly different thing then just building something for the personal showcase! Most items are modelled just to look good, putting a lot of subdivision into it so it all looks smooth. This is not the way to go for a game engine!

  Blender tutorials on you tube mostly show high poly modeling. You need to search the few game-modeling tutorials for blender - but there you can see and learn how it is done right.

  I urge Linden Lab to put in a visible render cost for all objects, starting from the store where people buy these assets, so they know how many ressources items eat up.

  And to the other professional 3D modelers out there, please teach the amateurs and semi-pros the difference between low poly modeling and high poly modelling as well.

  Edited by Prospero July 11, 2017 07:58
• 0
  
  Waldo July 13, 2017 00:14

  @prospero - yes makes sense.. I have a lot of homework to do for blender and Sansar. I did see that youtube tutorials are more super high rez single shot or blender movies. Model efficiency is going to be HUGE, as it effects load times of experiences, the thing will be to get enough detail to suspend reality, and have the experience load for the impatient ! it doesn't matter how cool my experience may be if it only loads fast on my system and takes tens of minutes for everyone else ! thanks for the tips and nomenclature so I can look up more things HA !

• 2
  
  Eleanor July 13, 2017 11:20

  Can't repeat what Prospero has said enough. This should be everywhere for everyone to read. People learning how to model have GOT to learn properly. This isn't a 5 minute hobby guys, it's a career, you need to train for years, same as any other. There is a lot of misinformation to be found on youtube, and a lot of the core things you should be learning just aren't in these tutorial videos.
  
  As for people just not reading the license agreements on these free model websites, at this point you're not just lazy, you're a thief of intellectual property, this can, and will, lead to legal action. Please be more careful in future. Seeing this happen ont he marketplace already, if you're into models and virtual worlds, you'll see some models that just become familiar to you, from free websites. They get around. An example of the effect - I sat in a sandbox in Second Life listening to a guy boast as he uploaded complex model after model, with hideous polycounts, all of them from the same page on a common freebie website (personal license only). (We're talking showpieces for rendering, complicated statues and so on, which he apparently learned how to, and created in one week of downloading 3D modelling software, which he was unable to name, MAGIC, please share your secrets senpai...!) Afterwards I spoke to him to see what his plans were, what his background was. He didn't even know the most basic things, which software, how to use it, what the files were, nothing, but those pieces were going onto the marketplace. This is a real problem. Yes, yes, people can make a few quid on it but the fact is it's ruining virtual worlds with lag, the spread of yet more rubbish information and the bad feeling that theft leaves hanging around. If a user who doesn't know better buys this object, they've bought stolen property, been lied to, and been ripped off to boot. The piece will be too heavy for proper use. Gah!
  
  As a side note, as it amused me, I'm looking right now at a person who has even uploaded the example teapot that 3ds max gives you as a standard shape. Completely unmodified. 10/10 for effort buddy.

  https://store.sansar.com/listings/d0aeeefa-ed6c-4946-9473-b71a4365cb39/white-teapot

  Sansar marketplace is already being flooded with commons items, with no idea as to whether they are suitable, by people who most likely cannot 3D model, and so cannot provide any support or help with their items. This is also a problem for the customer -

  https://store.sansar.com/search?creator=TurboSquid
  
  https://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Artists/royalmix

  On both of these points, from a customer's point of view, I think poly count should be on the marketplace, as well as ANY other information the customer wishes to see. If you've made/bought the object legitimately, you've nothing to worry about. As a creator myself I'd have no problem at all with 100% openness. I'd also encourage people to report known free models and duplicate versions of. As I realise Sansar cannot police this alone, that is simply asking the impossible, I'd say its important that honest creators help them out.

   

  Another thing that is often missed in Second Life, is clothing, customers are quick to point out if a chair is too high prim count for their land, but they are walking around in a dress that is 50000 odd polys, but of course as this doesn't count, they'll blame the chair for causing the lag around them xD

  Edited by Eleanor August 01, 2017 17:23
• 2
  
  Lillani July 15, 2017 02:30

  More over, in Sansar, models should be optimized not just for 'gaming', but also optimized for VR.... high poly counts will cause VR to stutter, even if you have a hefty video card.

• 2
  
  Bluebell - Helper July 15, 2017 12:25

  The reason we are all jumping you about high poly and free models is that most of us saw what happened in SL when mesh was introduced. As stated, models for a game should be as low poly as can be to prevent lag and other unwanted performance issues. The fact that even some big time creators in SL use bad made mesh makes it clear that both creators as well as customers should be informed about this. 

  Making mesh is not that hard, making it low poly is!

• 2
  
  November July 15, 2017 16:28

  I would love to see poly count and render cost on Store items, I would prefer to buy from creators who care about that, given the option.

• 1
  
  Eleanor July 15, 2017 19:33

  @Bluebell , exactly this. Some places are very pretty in Second Life, but because they have been modelled so badly, I can barely see them, as if I look up from the floor, my pc explodes. Such a shame and would hate to see this in Sansar.

   

  The bottom line is this, I've said it before and I'll say it again - 3D modelling is a skill that takes a long time, with proper training to learn, You will not learn everything in a week from youtube. Forget it. If you're going to do it, do yourself AND sansar a favour - get trained. 

  Edited by Eleanor July 22, 2017 00:34
• 2
  
  Bluebell - Helper July 16, 2017 10:52

  I try to not compare Sansar to SL too much but I would like to see we learned from the mistakes that were made in there.They both are alike when it comes to what makes an object a good game object. I won't sit here and say it's easy learning to take into account all the things that make a mesh a good preforming mesh for a gaming platform. But I do believe it is almost as easy to learn modeling the correct way as finding out you are doing it all wrong and having to learn again. 

  The common mistake made is ppl thinking a platform like this can/should look like a Pixar movie but they forget we are in it. We walk, talk, dress and build in it. All of this has a cost and slows the platform down. Sansar will be awesome but that's done by the tricks the creators have to make a low poly model look like a high poly model. 

  Key is to give out as much info as soon as possible on low poly modeling, LOD and render costs. Now that the 2nd wave of creators and players have arrived this should take form slowly. If we all share what we learn we can do it better this time around, I am sure!

  Edited by Bluebell - Helper July 16, 2017 14:22
• 4
  
  Eleanor July 22, 2017 01:01

  I wonder if it isn't too late to have items certified by Sansar as genuine creations by sellers. 

  In before people call me extreme, impractical or elitist, just a suggestion. If people could submit their files, progress and so on to sansar for a green tick on it that it is genuine, would this not filter out a lot of the CC and items ripped from games? If nothing else, duplicates would fall as the assessment team says - hang on, I've already seen this uploaded by another member! I know I'd be fine with a small waiting period while my items were assessed. If nothing else I'd feel more motivated to create for Sansar. Places with stolen and ripped models are very demoralising.

  What do you think peoples, and Sansar team?

  Edited by Eleanor July 22, 2017 01:08
• 1
  
  Tyler Scarborough July 22, 2017 01:07

  First thing that came to mind, being someone who makes 100% of his mesh from scratch ... and someone takes about taking stolen assets from a run of the mill 3d modeling site. 
  
  Starting Sansar with Stolen game assets 
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGc-iPc-9dE
  
  
  I'm with Eleanor .   the genuine mesh creators deserve a stamp of approval and or something to differentiate us from the trash who steal and upload ..   (sorry not sorry)

  Edited by Tyler Scarborough July 22, 2017 01:11
• 1
  
  Agustine July 22, 2017 01:28

  ..THE PROBLEM IS NOT COMPLEX... if poly/verts are listed then people will be buying and searching low-poly only and ignore high-poly...right now many SL members are uploading models from SL and those models are NOT low poly...those prims once converted to DAE have many many hidden and un-needed polys! Anything thats high poly will be ignored..

• 2
  
  Negasuki July 22, 2017 01:37

  ..I'm dying to say "just attach it to your avatar and it won't count against land cost! Problem solved!" :P

  Obviously j/k (don't hit me)

• 0
  
  Gindipple July 22, 2017 01:40

  It's an age old problem when it comes to real time ray tracing.

  People always will want better looking and neglect the performance hoping technology will catch up.

  Just look what happened with adding mesh to SL, everyone wants a mesh body and mesh head and mesh hair and now we pay the cost for all the high poly with lag.

  Sure it looks better, but only works if you snap your draw distance to about 10 lol

  If it's not enforced at the server end, people will always push things to the limit.

  Hopefully some good classes emerge on how to use texturing to simulate high poly on low poly objects.

   

• 0
  
  Eleanor July 22, 2017 08:51

  @ Augustine - Indeed. I agree that it should be standard, if not forced for models to have their correct poly count listed on the store page.

• 0
  
  GranddadGotMojo July 22, 2017 13:57

  When you talk about poly count in the Marketplace it makes me think that what might really be needed is that the models should be in online stores so you can actually see how they effect your graphics card/VR Headset in terms of poly count.  I can't see that this would be too hard for the Sansar Development Team to create .... purchasing in world.  I wonder where that falls on the "roadmap" that we never actually see.

• 1
  
  NorthernKiara July 22, 2017 14:13

  Could it also become possible...if and when in-world stores are available....to be able to click on an object and see its properties like poly-count and such?

  Also...what about a warning message upon import for a poly-count limit?
  
  Also...can it be assumed that an experience that takes a long time to load is over-poly-weighted?

• 0
  
  Lillani July 22, 2017 17:26

  @Eleanor It would be impossible for Linden Lab to tell what was an original model and what was copied from something else; they don't have insight into who made what from where. Secondly, the number of models which will, inevitably, get uploaded would make it impossible to keep up on. It wouldn't be a "slight" delay, it would become a delay of months and then years.

  I'm a proponent of a free and open marketplace, because it's the only way Sansar is going to grow quickly... I don't want to jump through hoops and loops to get things put on the Marketplace, even if that means I'm going to be selling along side pirated content. Someone else's content doesn't determine my own ability to sell.

  The only thing I find agreeable is to do what Google Play, iOS, or Steam does.... sellers pay a small, but moderate fee to become a content developer.

• 0
  
  NorthernKiara July 22, 2017 18:26

  @Lillani  I think sellers already pay a fee ... Sansar takes a percentage of the sale.

• 0
  
  Eleanor July 22, 2017 18:41

  Aye, the percentage of sale is enough, fees won't help as these people make the money anyway. 

• 1
  
  Lillani July 22, 2017 19:44

  @NorthernKiara I mean a payment in real world dollars, that has a real world identity behind it to acquire a 'Sellers Account'. It works for Googe Play, it works for iOS, and works for almost every other content market in the world; no reason it wouldn't work for Sansar.

  It's not about "making the money", it's about tying real world identity to a seller account... and disallowing 'anonymous' sales. That makes it slightly more difficult for someone start selling again if they get an account banned for content piracy.

  Edited by Lillani July 22, 2017 19:44
• 1
  
  Agustine July 22, 2017 19:50

  Thats why you get verified, like what paypal does...I think SL started verification on withdrawls already...

• 1
  
  Waldo July 22, 2017 22:41

  Hi Fellow Sansarians !
  
  I am Humbled by the awesome discussion on this thread !
  I am the O.P.
  My Original Thinking on Models & content was along the lines of "planet Quake" and other Mod Sites of yesteryear.
  Where all sorts of Stuff was available for download & "use"/license, even GNU? licence/open/free-with attribution left intact..
  
  Youse guys have opened my eyes !
  Forgive me if this is a little long, I have been reading the discourse on this topic and the single thing is see is We have an opportunity
  to define and influence how this developes, as an economy, as a beautiful departure evolving from lessons learned in SL.
  
  Digging right in...
  
  I tossed out the lazy like me thread, largely because my modeling skills are lacking, and blender is too "powerful" and it's going to take me a month
  
  of sundays to come up to speed with it. I see a couple of issues you all have specifically pointed out:
  
  1) community education of/on modeling standards for efficient models, low poly, and achieving visually stunning textures.
      -An "experience" atlas location for this is in order IMHO...
      -You early creator Pro's can hold lessons, create media screens with You-tube specific lessons, and highlight methodology and standards
      -Youtube blender tutorials are lacking or nonexistant for creating Game assets that could even come close for Sansar, I foresee, that once the
  
  general Public release of Sansar, you will be able to publish some awesome tutorials, in fact it may be essential in the early days to keep noobs like
  
  myself encouraged that they CAN create after a learning curve...
  
  2) IMHO a Sansar toolkit is in order, with things like an easier drawing/model tool, a way to skin/texture what is created, that does all or some of
  
  the PRO modeling "rules" you have highlighted already in this thread-as part of the background function of the Tool. IE: mass appeal of sansar is going
  
  to require this BECAUSE of the complexity and uniqueness you are mentioning, the mass-sansar base will not have the skills to self moderate -I am
  
  thinking of the bazillion PC and phone consumers who will see Sansar as a place to "Play" not another heavy learning experience, although that must too
  
  be available and in fact would be a logical step in getting "into" sansar as a passion. I m thinking something along the lines of Radiant3 I found it
  
  intuitive and easy to draw shapes and apply textures for import into my map creations. Sansar is going to need this I think for mass appeal.
  
  3) The Store and online marketplace:
      I would think that perhaps some of your concerns would be addressed by free-market drivers.. if one creates a high consuming model or
  
  experience, well then, the consumer who attempts to visit/load the creation/experience will naturally abandon them if they don't load, are slow to
  
  load, or disrupt or destroy the suspension of reality we seek in visually stuning experiences, by the glitches and artifacts they leave.
  These models and experience will take up server space at the least, and so a method will emerge to purge the system of these abandoned places ?
  
  3A) You-all blow me away with the fact that what Sansar IS. A repository of Creative content that IS intelectual property that can be sold & licensed !
  Eventually we will see turn-key experiences sold that meet standards. I totally agree that we should not just import game assets nor even allow it, as
  
  the intelectual property rights and legal aspects can cause a huge LL headache looking forward. hence a basic creator toolkit that functions highly
  
  could prevent what was my First Thought in grabbing assets from "free 3d model sites"  I am glad I put that thought out there and I am tickled pink
  
  that you have respectfully outlined the issues in the further discussion in this thread !!! You are Awesome, and I am Glad I chose to lurk for a while
  
  as I wait to build my "sansar machine" and exploring the possible with a sub-standard i3 and 5MB connection. I have learned MUCH from the community
  
  already and find these discussions edifying ! TONS more to learn !
  
  3B) I had not thought at first about the intellectual property rights/legal aspects, -perhaps spoiled by the well, it's ON the internet and I can grab
  
  it mentality, Sansar is inherently a PUBLIC Space as soon as you save and publish to the Atlas. I see a need to perhaps let it be known that
  
  Intelectual Property right are going to be HUGE, maybe even a popup "are you sure" when the final click to publish to the Atlas is in order ?
  If it evolves as an issue as you outline, it may be prudent for LL to outline some publishing rules before the what? Public Alpha ? I'd hate to see
  
  lawsuits arise in the real world due to intelectual property rights/license issues that could bog LL down before this grows to it's full potential.
  
  4) As it currently is, I do not hold that Sansar can be "Ruined" by lazy building of models nor Experiences. The consumer will know what works and does
  
  not and will vote with it's virtual feet. The Brilliance is that the Atlas is akin to having a HUGE library of "games & Experiences & Worlds" available
  
  via a click on the visit button ! IF what you build is truly shitty, it will simply take up whatever upload space on the LL server it consumes, and
  
  should not effect any other experience at all.
  
  4A) Expending on the poly counts etc suggested for models in the store, perhaps the atlas can also list some total counts for the experience, which
  
  will further distinguish for consumers who will inevitably have various PC capabilities, to judge what will function nicely or load and display
  
  terribly !?! It was always hit or miss for me teleporting in SL whether or not my vastly underpowered PC would even load a location let along get to
  
  the final rez of my avitar. I believe Sansar inherently already addresses this, while things take longer to load the more detailed an experience is,
  
  ONCE it loads, I can navigate fine, even on my sub-par PC !
   
  4B) I think that notorious "pirates" would be vulnerable to RL action by virtue of their secure and unique login, and owner stamps on all their
  
  "creations" and experiences, especially when they tie RL bank accounts and credit cards. I could foresee takedown orders given to LL much like youtube
  
  already does. Not excusing it, but some young people could mistakenly cross the lines, so early education on Intellectual content and why it's
  
  important in Sansar could set a public standard, and means of remediation perhaps after the Avator is created it first is forced to visit a education
  
  center with media surfaces highlighting everything Sansar is and what is expected of community members ??
  
  PLEASE continue your awesome thoughts and posts !
  as I said you gave me much to think about already !
  I personally am trying to come up to speed even with the basics in Blender let alone game low poly count, and even sizing and export LOL
  my Son a Industrial Designer in RL just shakes his head LOL...
  
  To be honest, I need a basic asset pkg. with shapes I can easily texture, things like RL 2x4's sheet goods, angled shapes, so I can simply drop and
  
  tweak in editing my experience, being able to click and go into some Sansar tool while editing my experience, could allow me to add a texture, attach
  
  an audio file, and quickly save it so I can also place it in the experience.
  
  Not everybody is going to be a Pro, and the mass appeal is going to be ease of use/creation. So I think tools that have baked in modeling standards
  
  tweaked for Sansar, is already a massive need/requirement..? or am I missing something !
  
  THANK-YOU ALL for contributing your thoughts to this thread !
  you have helped at least myself ! and for that I am grateful !
  
  -Waldo

• 1
  
  Tay Moon July 22, 2017 23:16

  I would love to know clearly how to only buy (in Sansar store or from 3D modeling sites) appropriate items. Low poly, legitimate, proper licensing, etc. And hope like crazy that info will be included in store item descriptions. And, what is good, low poly? what is high?

  But i am starving for tutorials. I can't google yet even for how to upload things to Sansar, because most things seem to be about uploading to a specific game engine. I know Sansar is not UE4, but I don't know what it *is*. I'm new to Blender, and have spent hours searching for help on how to use an FBX file - what to do with it when i buy one, even a so called "game ready" one. And as yet have had no luck putting an FBX into Sansar. The frustration is simply not being able to find the sources to alleviate my ignorance. :)  Desperately need that Builder's Brewery sort of chat group! Quick please. lol.

• 1
  
  Agustine July 22, 2017 23:35

  Hi Tay, firstmost welcome! The best practice is start basic by getting to know Blender first... learn to make basic shapes in Blender... checkout youtube which is full of tutorials.. start with Blender beginner tutorials.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYj6e-72RDs ...take your time and patience... have fun!

• 0
  
  Eleanor July 23, 2017 10:11

  Some really good points Waldo ^^ Hope this is the Sansar we end up with!

• 0
  
  Ava Verino July 23, 2017 11:52

  Hey guys, it is all a process of growing in Sansar, some of you are already pro in 3D, some of us aren't.. We are all learning here. More Sansar education would be more than welcome.. I am sure we have more than few people who can share one or two tutorials here, pro or not.. It is an amazing experience to share..

  Edited by Ava Verino July 23, 2017 13:28
• 0
  
  Bopete July 23, 2017 12:35

  Thanks for this thread!  I'm extremely new to Sansar, and also see I need to get up to speed with Blender asap.  I've tried in the past to get through some tutorials, but never managed to get far.  However, I have been using Wings3D for years, not only for sculpties, so I do know how to model.   I will be eagerly and gratefully combing this site and more for all the tips I can find.  So please keep posting whatever info you can!

• 1
  
  Bluebell - Helper July 23, 2017 16:45

  It is just great to see that we all want to do the right thing this time around. I know so far we are only a small group, BUT, we are the pilgrims so we can shape things for now and educate. Next is to cross our fingers and hope we made an impression!

  @ Bopete: I know Blender isn't easy to learn, but these days it's not harder then Maya or Max! Look for SL tutorials and the basics on the Blender website for now. I am sure when Sansar gets out of Beta, more relevant tut's will be on You Tube. Most important is that you learn the basics for now. That way you will be as ready as you can be for Sansar.