In the virtual world, players might randomly see something in a scene or something worn by others that they want to have. So there must be a feature allowing them to check who is the creator, as such they can access to the store and buy what they want.
this feature = advertising anything in anywhere
this feature is mutually beneficial to creators, Linden Lab, and customers.
Agreed. This is definitely a must.
I am sorry but I totally disagree, a consumer should NOT have at ALL the ability to see who is the creator of an asset inside an experience, because the product in Sansar is the experience NOT marketplace.
Any public or pay to play experience SHOULD NOT have guests clicking around trying to find out who the creator is of a particular asset, consumers inside an experience should be active in that experience, get kicked if inactive, moderated and get the hell out of there if they have nothing to to in there......They are always free to ask the experience provider who pays hard core dollars to keep an experience up, to put a list of content creators who made assets for Him or simply ask him directly things they wish to know.
By allowing consumers to have the ability to see who is the creator of any content inside an Experience jeopardizes Sansar right from the first day and poises it to be a great flop and waste of time for anyone who put time in it.
Experience owner can have a page to give credits, eg when a client logs off their experience or logs in and give credit to content creators....but click to see who made something is definitely a no go.
Consumes should NOT have any editing capabilities even with their own avatar (unless the avatar customization is governed by script, that is allowed to run in that experience) when visiting or guests in another experience...any form of editing should be done ONLY in edit mode and offworld so to speak.
Even if Sansar would to become second life 2, You must remember that the core, the true hard dollars is the real estate, which in the case of Sansar will be how much experience owner will pay for server time and how much they will charge for clients to visit their place, which can be way above the hundreds of million dollars a year, making marketplace sales a needle in a haystack.
Any person who wishes to be on Sansar, will surely have their own lil free space, however, if u think of an experience as land as in SL they will have to pay for it.
But as for now, when u log on Sansar You are nowhere, and even if u rezzed in ur default free space u would still be nowhere, until u can go to public places where u can freeload, or non profit spaces, or for profit spaces.
But it is not like IN SL where u can buy an airplane and fly where u want for free ..anyone who will set up an airport experience will probably give airplanes for free and some better models to pay for and charge to fly inside a themed context with an interaction context,,,finding out who made an airplane and then buying it on marketplace no matter how cool it is, and then u can fly it only in your own space, can be pretty boring .....and if u want to fly it anyhow here others fly with You , then anyhow that space You will have to pay for, unless there is a nice donor of space.....in that case knowing who the creator is makes little sense anyhow.....
Same logic can apply eg for home prefabs. lets say you want to live in a nice space provided by someone, you will need to pay for it, but he will not let u drop down any home u want, because he can only charge you for a space that has a logic and theme to it, yes of course u can pay for server, offer space, and let any one do what they want in their space, so u get a ugly multi themed experience to rent...do you really think that it is worth investing into this kind of stuff in 2017 for the next decade?! so what would be the point in having a wonderful graphics, if experience look chaotic and people visiting are doing their own thing.
Do You really think that if u rent an experience that can host max 30 60 clients, u want free loaders coming over clicking on stuff, and making it laggy or hard to access their rented space to the rightful tenant?
This is not sl where if no one ever bought a sim there is mainland and even if half of it is abandoned land u can drive walk and fly over it.....this is Sansar, if u dont pay the experience goes offline.....if ur experience clients dont get decent performance ur experience will go off line too because ur out of business.
If You make an airport and people start riding horses on the tarmac you will go out of business pretty fast.
If people want to know who build something , they should do what any normal person does, just ask...and not freeload server time
I think this is could be an optional setting applicable when an experience is not free.
But if you ask money to people to go in your experience... I would like they can see the info on my stuff that you are using in it... so...
@Zeja
I think that if I made an experience, I would want to give credit to You if I have used yoru stuff...like u see in some SL fashion blogs, where u see a picture of a model wearing stuff, so it will the say stylist such and such, hair by such and such, mesh avatar by such and such, skin by such and such and so on..
I would not want people to click and see object by object , but rather give You the biggest publicity as possible and highlight with a nice proper full screen image with all that You contributed for in MY experience, which is way more elegant way to do things and way more effective to have people buy Your products and ESPECIALLY by giving You recognition and credit elevate Your status and fame.
Also there is another big issue by click to see e who made what....lets say I make a sofa and YOU make the animations for it......do i have to allow you to see what content is inside that sofa?.....and what if it is not just a sofa but a 200 meter spaceship with tons of scripts in it that does tons of stuff,, would I want others to see the content of that build and guess the architecture and engineering behind it?
Would I want for others to know whos animations I am using? Maybe I dont want that. as matter of fact I would definitely NOT want that because I wouldnt want copy cats copycatting my stuff, just as it happens all the time in SL.
How many times did You see the same full perm shoe sold by different people in many cases with the same stupid texture on them?
Sansar is NOT sl, even if u make a jazz club to enter for free, SL jazz club model is about selling gowns and shoes and stuff like that...on Sansar it would be very stupid for a Jazz club owner, to allow people to come to that place if they are allowed to wear clothes and dresses that are not sold in their lace,...and guess what......Experience creators will have total control of avatar appearance when they visit.....so eg if u have a mars astronaut experience, U cant come in dressed like a viking but instead u will be dressed as an astronaut directly upon entering the experience
That's where we stop to call this the metaverse... That's more a game engine. I'm maybe on the wrong platform.
COCA, in order to be successful, Linden Lab will have to adapt some of what makes SL successful to Sansar. While it's great to go in a new direction, you should never forget what works... and what works well.
I'm sure some experiences will force their experience onto a user because it is artistic in merit/nature, but, I imagine most experiences will not-- trying to pigeon what everyone else's experience will be or should be is a misguided way of looking at things, honestly. Choice and freedom is what attracts people.
For instance, any experience I create will *not* force the user into a specific character or outfit. You may do that, I will not. Anyone will be welcome in whatever avatar and outfits they see fit to wear that day.
Sansar's success will be taking the core formula of what works in SL and making it exceptionally better here. Sansar isn't SL and nor should it be, but just because it isn't, doesn't mean to forget what works.
@COCA Yven
What? I don't agree with this mantra in the slightest.
Somehow you've picked up the idea that by seeing the creator of an object that it somehow poses a problem to Sansar?
How are objects supposed to be sold with no exposure other then the Marketplace then if someone were to decide they didn't want to help advertise a product that they bought for selfish reasons?
It's ridiculous.
@Zeja Pyle
Pretty much. I'm going to be honest. As of right now I have no idea who this is marketed towards. No idea who this platform is geared towards and if the goal was to truly expand on Second Life then why re-invent the wheel? Why not actually expand on Second Life if that were the case?
This isn't exactly the thread to discuss this but I personally have major concerns on where Sansar is headed. Sansar, from what I can see, is more like a showroom floor that you would see at a car lot... except in this case the show room also doesn't have any signs on it to see what is actually around (Lack of details for consumers.).
This is as good a place as any. Who is the client, the consumer, the creator, this sansar is build for and who we are supposed to sell to? We need definitions of our targets. We cannot market without targets.
@Relapse
I wouldn't worry too much about it, Relapse. While Sansar isn't SL 2.0, it's definitely going to be its spiritual successor, you can even see that now in the way development is going and as features get added. The implementation will be very different, the interface will be very different, the engine will be significantly better, but... at the core, it has the same skeleton that made SL a success.
Ultimately, it's the people who made SL what SL is... SL is just a platform, just like Sansar is, and in the end, the consumers will decide how that platform is used.
Anything else is just speculation. :)
And the reason why you can't really add onto SL is because eventually... you just need to replace the whole engine with something modern; and that would break every piece of content in SL. Or, if you tried to maintain that much backward compatibility while moving forward, you would strain the engine down with so much bulk it would just be a chore to run, let alone maintain. Engines can't be bogged down by the past when they want to leap forward.
@Everyone
In this very moment there is likely around 3 million active players on steam out of 6 7 millions logged on.
There is more or less 100 thousand titles of which 1000 are VR titles.
ON ANY of these titles there is NOT a single game that U click on to see who the creator of an object is.
Maybe it is not very clear to some people here, but the idea of Sansar is NOT to attract SL kind of gaming in any form at all.
The business model is to make it easy for anyone to build something easily, so for them to pay for server time even if they dont wish to share their URL to no one.
By building easily this menus build forests in few seconds, build towns and villages in coupe of minutes, build roads in a whole experience in 2 3 minutes and so on.....
Linden Lab greatest ambition with Sansar is to attract content creators game developers and Huge international corporations like Ikea, to create triple A titles on this platform and attract hundreds of millions of users, who can both pay to play and pay to have their little cozy private experience that they will allow people to come only by invitations.
it is also very possible, that one day even if You do own an experience Linden Lab will ask You money to publish and list it
Some dilettantes will buy stuff from marketplace other professionals will build hundreds of instanced experience with their own luxury detailed villas yachts airplanes cars and anything u can throw at it that is relevant to the experience theme.If Ikea will come in they will have their Ikea experience shops , where u can buy their Ikea furniture
Hobbist Content creators or even consumers will be able to buy one item from marketplace, then buy a script from another guy, buy textures form another, and then when they resell the item each of the creators who has content in that build for sale will take a little percentage on the sale automatically, the serious content creators that instead have at least 5 digit sales a month instead will pay for what they need outsourcing to professionals that will instead ask for a high one time fee
People who will own experiences will not allow people to come in just like that and be able to run scripts....Sansar is not like Second life where u can roam around just like that to any private place and freeload, of course there will be some, but dont expect anything like Sl where u can teleport anywhere u want to and even if u did, You wont be able to run any script change clothing or rez anything and possibly not even walk or zoom around
There is people here and many will come that are aiming at 40k 100k active users ON their experience at all times and not 40k users on all of Sansar.
I am sure that there will be a permissions system that might one day allow for a consumer to see the name of the creator, but it simply cannot be by default On Sansar as a fact because left or right click in some experiences has to be mapped for what that experience wants the right left click to be.
You cannot conform the right left mouse clicks like on SL because they need to be free to be mapped by all experience owners, at this moment left click orbits ur cam , for some other experiences who are aimed at Display users left click will be mapped to navigate along with wasd which is the standard for all online games
in some experience left click will do one thing, or other it will do another.
You can make a script for seeing creator name if u want and have it mapped to F keys on a consumers keyboard when he will visit ur experience if that is what you want
You can definitely hook up with some good programmer and make a nice script for seeing creator names and sell that on marketplace, but i doubt that any one who has a private experience will allow to run any 3rd party scripts in their place as well
There is no logic to create a default right click like on SL with a default Pie menu of which one is named EDIT... edit mode on Sansar is different, and that right click as i explained before has to be mapped according to how a experience creators needs that pie chart to look like and precisely do what He needs it to do.....whether zoom , or make draw distance longer, or throw a grenade, or activates the breaks of a SUV car...the list limit be as much as the sky.
think of Sansar as aplace where any oen can create a game inside, or a real interactive museoum wher eu can buyart and get it shipped in reallife, where jewelers can sell IN Sansar and ship in real life, where funriture manufacturers can sell In sansar and ship in real life, where u cna make fantasy paces in distant exotic worlds where u want eveyone to be an alien, or a place where u want to replicate Second Life Main land but in venetian style....
forget about SL the last thing any serious person can think of is to sell to his own SL clients here on Sansar...there is not advantage in that ONLY the risk to lose Your SL clients for good.
Think to sell to Sansar consumer clients that need interactive stuff or scripted building tools as i made an example above, or partner with some good experience developers and make Your income from the potential tens of thousands of gamers that can come on this platform....example You are good at making gowns then set up a good team with a good hair maker, a good shoe maker , a very good venue organizer, set up live music in a wonderful dream castle and then Offer Your whole line of clothes and jewelry in one HUD that the client has to just click on what he sees to try or to buy, without needing to go in any market place, and that CAN ONLY WORK IN UR CLUB...I can then assure to You that if Your team is really good.... You will get at least 300 thousand members of which at least 60 are active at all times at all hours
Take a look at Unreal engine Market place so You can get an idea of how a Sansar successful marketplace creator can offer. and yeah if u think what u make in Second life , can have something extra because of scripting capabilities on Sansar then why not bring ur SL stuff on here to sell, all u need to do is simply to change ur textures from specular workflow to metallic workflow using allegorithmic B2M converter...maybe u make the best lamps that u can make a switch that a VR user can touch to switch light on off, that will sell for sure, maybe u make mesh avatar clothing, so u can make a hud with all your clothes in it and the client al he needs is the hud and buy from it without going at all on marketplace.
Think different think big and not about getting people to see what your competitors name is on an object to get advertisement for free .....that will not help Your sales at all...if your stuff is really good, people will ask the experience owner.......so if u own experience, and u wanna make money and be famous, whatever is in your experience, it better be yours.
Start simple but think big, there is lots of really good content creator very prestigious names on these forums, and I really think that we all do have get opportunities to enjoy more what we do, to really offer lots of moments of joy to people who will come play here, and that some can really team up in some instances and learn from one another in others, in My opinion the biggest and strongest marketplace for 3d Content is Second Life, and that is considering that coding limitations that SL allows.
I can only desire for You to be successful also on Sansar because the more You can be successful the more Sansar will be really popular, everyone will benefit even SL if Sansar will be a totally different product as Ebbe vision appears to be.
@Lillani & @Froukje
https://sansar.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115001145787-General-Concerns-Direction
I made a thread specifically talking about this. I would be happy if you both participated in it.
@Coca
In any of those games, the creator of the object is the game developers themselves. That's the tremendous difference. I don't know how many people you think will be making their own full-fledged games on Sansar, but it's not many, if any. Sansar should give people as much control over their game environment as possible, not turn itself into a walking simulator with no interactivity or knowledge to gleam.
I would use Unreal engine or Unity If I would like to make a video game...
I let you judge by yourself, they are a lot more ahead
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6tRt7c2elU
@Zeja
What makes You think that some already dont?!
What if I told You that I make games on UE Unity Cry engine?!
Does it matter if I do?
Maybe Lindens Labs project is more interesting to me more than a Steam outlet, because for My business model Sansar is more VR AR MR friendly.
Maybe I dont make games at all but Sansar can be a cost effective side project that can be scaled for business...(which btw it is)
I think that object info is a must have if they expect people to make a living from Sansar.Buti agree that in case of some experiences is better not to.it could be optional
The default should be to be able to see who made what; and those who want to block that in their own experiences, can. If someone want limits, let them impose their limits on their own experiences, not on everyone else's.
As for making games in Sansar. In my case, I have several game engine licenses, as do most game designers, which gives us freedom to deploy games across an incredibly wide spectrum of devices... why on earth would we limit game design to a niche platform? No serious game designer is going to use Sansar to build fully fledged games; that would be the exception, not the rule as it's just incredibly counter productive.